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Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by kilroy_jones on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @05:55PM (#23012618)
Younger students (K-12) need interaction with other students and their teachers, not lectures. I teach some of the most motivated and diligent students you could ask for, but after 3 weeks of online learning they were burnt out.

To further compound the issue, in many places students don't have reliable internet access or a decent computer.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by yay_cloud2 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:16PM (#23013312)
This has been my son's experience as well (Grade 4). We are on week 6 of home-school, and by far the thing that energizes him, lifts his mood, and gets him through his work is any interactions at all with his fellow students.

Most of his classmates are too young to have strong bonds outside of the structure of school, so (I think) school needs to accept the power of these bonds and facilitate social interaction between kids. De-prioritize the output, and prioritize the process of learning things together.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by WillPostForFood on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:26PM (#23013388)
Most of his classmates are too young to have strong bonds outside of the structure of school

It is unfortunate, and a poor reflection on modern culture that 4th grade is too young to form strong bonds outside of school. Kids are missing the after school unstructured free/play time. Decades later, I'm sill best friends with kids I went to school with in 4th grade.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:48PM (#23013567)
It's not exactly like the kids could all go out and play together right now.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by irishcoffee on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:58PM (#23013631)
My kids do.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by sjg007 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:11PM (#23013733)
I mean you are taking a risk here. But even then some of us don't have the option here.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by vl on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:44AM (#23016886)
No, of course it’s much better to traumatize kids by unreasonable many-month isolation. This will make them well-adjusted adults for sure.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by irishcoffee on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @09:00PM (#23014080)
I don’t go anywhere and my kids don’t leave the street. “Sorry kids you can’t go outside for the next 3 months. I’ll keep the windows clean for you so you can look.” Tantamount to child torture.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by anoncareer0212 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:16PM (#23014552)
Not sure what you mean, I think y'all might be talking past eachother: poster is saying they can't exactly go play outside with the neighbors right now, which is obviously true, if kids in the neighborhood are running around together, we'd just be building really efficient viral transmission chains
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by m_mueller on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:42AM (#23015780)
This is an assumption of yours for which there's insufficient evidence. Or even the evidence is currently rather pointing the other way. What I have is anecdotal evidence from here in Switzerland - adults generally keep distance while children in the neighborhood generally play with each other. We currently are down to ~120 new cases a day across Switzerland, hospitalization taken a sharp downturn and has never exceeded capacity.

It's all a game of numbers - sure, there will be some transmissions if you let children play together in open spaces, but overall, from what current data suggests, it's not a significant vector. We generally have to think like this now, there's no such thing as absolute safety and we really have to think hard about what should be restricted and what negative effects this will have long term. Isolating kids at home for months is IMO not worth it.

On a different note, neither is allowing small businesses to fail in droves even if they can provide a good hygiene concept. Switzerland has also opened up hairdressers since this week - with masks, hand sanitizing and contact tracing being mandatory for everyone. We'll see in a couple of weeks whether this works or not.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by vinay427 on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:47AM (#23016915)
Another anecdote: Where I am in Switzerland, it's rather unusual to see kids playing together right now (except for presumably siblings). I can see a bit of a school playground from my home and the groups that visit have really dwindled over the past few months and it hasn't rebounded yet. There are usually only 1-2 kids playing at a time.

Adults more or less try to maintain distances, as you said.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by m_mueller on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @05:17AM (#23017102)
it's definitely down from normal numbers of kids playing here. but those parents who allow going to playgrounds are usually OK if kids play with some distance. what I found works well is ball passing with soccer - no touch needed. badminton is also reasonable safe distance. with 'neighborhood' I meant the immediate housing project here, we have a couple of boys who are inseparable and I find the risk tolerable if those same kids play together daily. Should be simple to trace also in case the housing gets cases.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by sjg007 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @06:35PM (#23037027)
Kids are known viral factories. They tend to have higher viral loads despite not getting as sick. This is one reason we have school breaks in the winter and spring, basically to cut down transmission chains.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by irishcoffee on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:47PM (#23014742)
The crux of the conversation is: either everyone is going to catch this because of how contagious it is, or we all stay home for ~1-1.5 years until a vaccine is widely distributed. There isn't much of a middle ground.

Everyone will catch this. To think otherwise is folly. Our intrepid leaders have had between 4-6 weeks to sort things out. Hope they did.

My kids can go play outside. This is getting absurd.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by fountainofage on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @11:16PM (#23014923)
I don't think any reputable person has claimed an attempt to stop everyone from catching this. The mantra is "flattening the curve." It's been that since the beginning. We don't want to overwhelm the healthcare system like what has happened and is happening in Italy.

And shelter in place with strong social distancing has proven to be the most effective way to slow the spread of the virus given the current testing capacity and lack of contact tracing.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by irishcoffee on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @09:09PM (#23026450)
Yes I agree, flatten the curve. Then what? We social distance for a year or two? The world economy goes to hell? Can’t buy a pork chop? All because boomers stuck their parents in nursing homes?

This is bullshit.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by sjg007 on Thursday April 30, 2020 @06:40PM (#23037073)
Nah, food processors will need to come up with ways to physically distance with screening or otherwise provide PPE. Those jobs will suck and there won't be any socialization in lunch/break rooms but it will be necessary.

We will learn more during this time about how the virus works and how to treat it as well. Hopefully that knowledge will help us exit faster but we should expect this to be a long term new normal.

Travel and tourism is definitely going to take a bigger and continued hit. But there might be ways to make it work.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by rorykoehler on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @05:21AM (#23017126)
The idea is that everyone doesn't catch it at the same time, not that they don't catch it at all.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by vl on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:41AM (#23016863)
To everyone paranoidly sitting is strong isolation I’m saying “What is your exit strategy? The virus is not going away, there will be no vaccine for many months. Are you planning on sitting it out for a year? Two? Ten? If not, you might as well go on with your life while taking reasonable precautions and practicing hygiene.”
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by ben_w on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @06:37AM (#23017613)
I don’t think paranoia means what I think you think it means.

Like most people on the site, I am well adapted to the conditions forced upon us by this pandemic.

What I can’t do is go travelling, what with the airports being closed to tourists, the hotels being closed, and the airlines cancelling any flights other than repatriations, etc. — and I can’t go to local museums, because they’re closed.

I can’t go to a pub to hang out with local furries, because the pub is closed. I probably can’t go to the large furry convention that was going to happen later this year in my city, because the hotel it would be held in is currently being used as a pop-up hospital. Even if I got around the airport problems by learning to fly (I have the money and time for lessons but not for a plane), I couldn’t go to any other cons instead because their hotels have also been converted into pop-up hospitals.

I can go for walks, but I can’t go to any parks, because they’re closed.

I’m also not comfortable with selling my old home in the UK and buying a new one in Berlin — but that’s not because of risk to me, it’s because of the situation in the UK. It’s not really a “hobby”, but it is something I had planned to do and have put off because of this.

I’m not into music or dancing or spectator sports, but those are big parts of most people’s lives — now impossible because their venues are closed.

The only thing I can do is walking (on sidewalks), passive a/v entertainment, MOOCs/etc, and video games.

Suits me, but if it didn’t, there wouldn’t be anything I could do about it.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by meheleventyone on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @06:06AM (#23017418)
It's not an either or situation where one size will fit all is it?

If you live in an area that's a hotspot then you need to have tighter restrictions than if not. If you know you're in an at-risk group then you need to have tighter restrictions.

Our restrictions and daily routines are naturally going to have to shift about as the virus ebbs and flows. Which is why a good local testing and contact tracing regime is essential to end the most draconian lockdowns. If you don't even know how the virus is distributed locally and can't quickly act to quarantine people who have been in contact with someone who is infected then it's very hard to say mingling together is a great idea. That said the risks of kids playing together in a neighborhood seem pretty minor if otherwise people are keeping to themselves. The likely negative consequence is that if one family has a member that tests positive then all the others in the neighborhood will need to quarantine until they can be tested or enough time passes. Here that's 14 days if you're not symptomatic or 7 days after the symptoms go if you are. Then the less likely consequence is that you're the vector that passes on the infection and it kills one of your neighbors.

We're relaxing our restrictions here a bit in Iceland on Monday and I'm really interested to see how that goes.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by smileysteve on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:26AM (#23015678)
> Everyone will catch this. To think otherwise is folly.

I have my hopes, if not at least until Winter.

Luckily, I have hobbies that are easily done without large groups of people and believe I can avoid groups of 10 or more people for most of summer and probably 50 people until September. (I've not spent more than a few minutes with more than 3 others for the last month and half)

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by vl on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:35AM (#23016827)
Ah, covid-shaming on HN. Then they go to Costco in unfitted, unfiltering masks and bring home bunch of packages, pretending they avoided “social contact”.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by irrational on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:53PM (#23014773)
It's not that simple. We live in a suburban neighborhood. When I was a kid we had tons of kids in the neighborhood I grew up in to play with. Now? My family is the only one in the neighborhood with kids. Their classmates live quite aways away across busy streets. I'd have to drive them to their classmates houses. People just don't have kids like they used to.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by chongli on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:53PM (#23013587)
This jumped out at me as well. When I was that age I spent my summers riding my bike and roaming the city with my friends. The thought that kids today are entirely dependent on the structure of school for socialization is incredibly depressing. What have we done to society?
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by lotsofpulp on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:58PM (#23013629)
Moved into far flung suburbs separated by 4+ lane roads with large vehicles traveling 50mph+ in order to sequester the kids in the “nicest” neighborhoods so they only have well to do kids in their school.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by pfranz on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @11:35PM (#23015038)
The parent is one data point. Perhaps the one kid leans on school for social connections at this point in their life? Some kids are loaners (but still need social connections) others are very social.

Another commenter pointed out that there were only a few school-aged kids in their neighborhood. I noticed when I graduated high school there weren't many younger school-aged kids in my neighborhood even though I grew up with a good number of people nearby. When my sister moved into a newly built neighborhood when they had kids other young families moved in, too. I think neighborhoods tend to cluster with families, it cycles and may not always catch on every generation and some kids get stuck.

Those situations sound incredibly depressing, but I don't think it necessarily reflects all of society.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by BryanBigs on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @06:54AM (#23017724)
Well, sports.

In my area, kids on the B team in FIFTH GRADE play over 55 basketball games a season.

That's more than any college.

It's the same lunacy for hockey, baseball, etc.

They get social interaction from the team, sure. But it's no longer a seasonal thing. It's year round and cancels out a lot of play time in the hood.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by JCharante on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @11:13PM (#23014894)
Yeah I'm confused by this. My oldest friend is my friend from 3rd grade who I only play video games with. We weren't ever in the same classroom and I only went over to his house twice. I haven't seen him in years but at most we've only gone a few months without doing something over the past decade+.

Maybe that's because as a child I had unsupervised access to a networked playstation and a computer. I would have loved to stay at home all day.

As an adult I hate it. When my city opened back up I took up cycling as my only mode of transport because I've taken the feeling of physical exertion for granted.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by watwut on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @02:31AM (#23016074)
Adults dont keep such relationships either.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by koolba on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:27PM (#23013393)
No just split the two things entirely. Have an hour of free form video chat to make fun of each other and laugh. The education there is from interacting.

It’s no different than removing sports as a separate subject. You don’t learn math or English running down a track field and you don’t learn how to swimming reading 20000 Leagues Under the Sea.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by eitally on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:13AM (#23015614)
My kid's class has a parent-organized "Zoom recess" three times a week for just this. There's always a volunteer parent moderating/hosting, but it's an oppy for kids to be themselves socially.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by bubbleRefuge on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:15PM (#23012797)
Yes, its tough enough to get them to concentrate with all of the electronic stimulants available, and now we are forcing them to spend more time on these electronic platforms. For young people, we need to stimulate their curiosity. They need to see , touch, feel, and experience things in multiple dimensions. They have all this curiosity and energy and we squash it by expecting them to sit and listen to lectures and do worksheets. Experiential learning was falling by the wayside before this crisis, and now that is accelerating.

Living in the 3rd largest school district in America, I'm wondering if secretly ,the administrators are seeing this as an opportunity to get 1 step closer to automating away the teacher so that they can stay within budget constraints and serve more people.

Feels like it is all going the wrong way. We need to flip this narrative: massive federal funding for schools, more teachers, better pay for teachers, better facilities, more field trips, small student to teacher ratios, free tutoring.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by zzedd on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:51PM (#23013578)
yes, there is a long history of trying to automate education (largely unsuccessfully). see Larry Cuban's "Teaching and Machines"
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by briandear on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @02:48AM (#23016160)
Remote kindergarten is horrible. It defeats the purpose. The lockdown is causing significant developmental harm to younger kids. Ask anyone with a five year old doing “remote” kindergarten. Even older primary school kids are being significantly stressed. Teaching elementary school via Zoom is insane. The second order effects of these lockdowns are being ignored. We are worried about nursing homes and older co-morbid people but we are literally ignoring the damage being caused to the kids. This isn’t “homeschool,” this is something else entirely and it’s brutal. Kids should be in school and the old and sick should be the ones locked down. Those with special needs as well as the poor are being especially hammered by this. A lot of crucial development happens in younger kids and losing almost half the school year isn’t a trivial thing. The mental health and developmental impacts are being ignored.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by adchari on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @09:53PM (#23014419)
Even as a college student, same. My quality of learning has seriously gone down the hill without the same access to my peers for homework and projects
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by Hextinium on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:12AM (#23015612)
Its not even that I study with other people, it's the "what is he going on about" while in class that I miss the most. I am expecting to drop a full letter grade this semester from my average just from being online.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by fatnoah on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:39AM (#23020497)
>Younger students (K-12) need interaction with other students and their teachers, not lectures

My son is the kid who relishes every chance to miss school, but was devastated to find out there would be no more school for the year.

Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by sjg007 on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:10PM (#23013729)
I think high schoolers (so 9th grade onward) could be fairly independent. For sure seniors.
Re:Some school districts plan to end the year early, call re... by dorchadas on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:57PM (#23014061)
I teach high school, and they're not. Many of them are burnt out and struggling, even with constant teacher availability. They need the interaction and in-person support just as much as younger kids.