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A comment on Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps. Parent comment

Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:14PM (#23010669)
No one is entitled to a business model. If you can't exist without being ethically sound, then you can't exist - period. Capitalism is not a replacement for ethics.

And in any case: you can sell open-source software.

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by DrJokepu on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:26PM (#23010786)
Nobody is entitled to my labor either.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:54PM (#23011115)
Correct. But we are entitled to the source code for programs which run on our computers, or is paid for by our taxes.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by koolba on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:08PM (#23011296)
> Correct. But we are entitled to the source code for programs which run on our computers, ...

No you're not. If you want the source code for the programs to run on your computer either write them yourself, choose FOSS ones, or pay someone to write one that supplies the source.

Nobody is mandating you buy a particular piece of software or run it on your computer. You're choosing to do it. If you decide you're not going to run closed source software that's your personal choice.

> ... or is paid for by our taxes.

That's moving goal posts.

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by renewiltord on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:13PM (#23011347)
Haha, I know that Sourcehut is open-source and you derive revenue from the fact that people prefer to use it as a SaaS product, but it is amusing that the SaaS-ness of it means that your statement only applies to the front-end portion.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:32PM (#23011590)
The SourceHut backend is also open source. A related idea is "if you're handling my data, I'm entitled to view the code which is doing so".
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by renewiltord on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @05:34PM (#23012380)
Right, right, I know. It's just the style of what you said was amusing, not your actual practice, which is consistent.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by smabie on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:20AM (#23015319)
Why are we entitled to it?
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:37PM (#23010909)
And in any case: you can sell open-source software.

Do you do that?

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:38PM (#23010918)
Yes.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:19AM (#23016746)
That's interesting, I could only see services on your web site. What software do you sell?
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by metaobserver on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:46PM (#23011005)
No one is entitled to free software and should not expect others to slave off and give away fruits of their hard work for free. This entitled communist mentality is unethical.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @03:48PM (#23011031)
It's my computer, not yours. If you want to run software on it, I get to see the source code, that's the deal. We could agree that I can't use your software under these terms, but this would exploit those who don't understand the value of the source code. This is how spyware is born. If it runs on my machine, it's open source, or it's bunk.

And, once again, you can sell open source software.

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by metaobserver on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:21PM (#23011432)
If it's sandboxed and accesses only the resources (network, disk etc.) you explicitly allow it to, you don't need to know how the processing is done. Spyware is not born out of legally obtained closed-source software. It's born out of corporations selling centralized SaaS, infringing on users' privacy and locking them in by design. The very same corporations championing OSS big time, because it benefits their spyware business. With thousands of naive contributors slaving off for posterity and hope that they will get noticed and hired. How ethical is that?

Granted, if you sign an NDA and pay extra, you may have the source. If this is the model you suggest, I think it's fair.

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ptx on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @06:12PM (#23012764)
Software that can't access my resources is usually not going to be very useful. If it does get access, I have to trust it with my data, so it needs to be trustworthy. Sandboxing doesn't solve the problem.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by jayshua on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:01PM (#23011199)
If two people, in full understanding of the value of source code, both decide for one to provide a proprietary closed-source software and the other to run it in exchange for money - is it still unethical?
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by ddevault on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:02PM (#23011211)
I don't understand your question.
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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by jayshua on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @04:14PM (#23011356)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point then. I got from your posts roughly: It is unethical for end-user software to be closed source, everyone is fundamentally entitled to the source code for programs they run on their computer. Further, if an end-user decides not to run the closed-source software, it is still unethical because many people don't understand the value of source code and they are still being exploited when they purchase/run the software.

My question: Is it still unethical if the exchange and use of proprietary software is made only between people who fully understand the value of source code and decide to anyway?

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Re:Show HN: Add license key verification to your apps by TheDong on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:09PM (#23021554)
It's a potentially unethical situation at the very least.

If the person running that software asks for the source code, it would be unethical to withhold it from them. However, from the arrangement you made, it would also be unethical for the person to exercise that entitlement which they previously agreed to give up. Two unethical actions don't make a right, so you're just setting yourself up for an unethical situation all around. Better to just make it clear the source code's available on request from the beginning.

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