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Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by ballenf on Monday April 27, 2020 @03:44PM (#22999227)
I love the precedent that Disney is setting here. Will be a little harder for them to argue against my Tweet next month:

"Walt Disney World was awesome! Thanks to all the hard workers who made the day special.

By replying to this Tweet, Disney Corp. hereby agrees to abide by the copyright laws in place as of the release dates of its motion pictures, instead of the longer dates obtained through perversion of the legal system by Disney and its lobbyists."

In all seriousness, I'm sure Disney never thinks for a moment that the law would ever be applied fairly to them or that this tweet could come back to bite them.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by elliekelly on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:13PM (#23002234)
This reminds me of the Russian gentleman who received an offer for a new credit card but didn’t like the fine print. So he changed it. And mailed the contract back to the bank who... didn’t read the fine print and accepted the terms.

When he sued the bank to enforce his contract for a no-fee account with an unlimited line of credit at 0% interest he won. Fortunately for the bank he was prudent in his spending despite his access to unlimited funds so he hadn’t racked up much of a bill.

Story here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/read-the-sma...

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by justanotherc on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:26AM (#23005913)
Except he didn't win. I believe he lost in appeal as it was deemed he acted in "bad faith".
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by elliekelly on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:01AM (#23007033)
It seems the case was eventually settled[1] for an undisclosed sum.

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinkoff_Bank

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by henryfjordan on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:48PM (#23000509)
I mean, why wouldn't you be able to form a contract through tweets? You can form a contract through any medium you want, especially just to give permission to Disney to use your tweet.

I don't think Disney is setting any precedent or anything else weird by saying "send us messages you want us to publish, by the way here are the specific terms we want to use" on Twitter, they've been doing that for a long time before twitter even existed. Think about America's Funniest Home Videos, they did exactly this for decades but over TV.

Your tweet fails to give Disney any "consideration" so it's not going to be a valid contract and not because it's in a tweet. Offer them clearer terms and a dollar and then maybe you'd have a point. Right now they offer you a chance to see your tweet in some marketing materials, better than nothing right?

Lastly, this is incredibly specifically scoped. Does anyone tweeting "Love the new movie #MayTheFourth @Disney" really expect Disney not to want to use it? They are going to have someone review the tweets before they use them. How could this possibly come back to bite Disney?

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by snickerbockers on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:30PM (#23002333)
Disney probably does have implicit permission from anybody who tags them and uses that hashtag to use their quotes for a social media project, since Twitter is generally considered to be a forum for public discourse. This might also be enshrined in Twitter's ToS. That's not the problem.

The problem is that they claim that anybody who tweets at them and uses their hashtag is entering into a contract agreement with the Walt Disney Corporation, which can be found at https://disneytermsofuse.com/ . This is ridiculous because nobody needs Disney's permission to use Twitter. If somebody were to use Twitter to express to Disney a desire to enter into a contract that might be valid, but Disney can't unilaterally declare that anybody who sends a communication to them over a given medium is unconditionally agreeing to be bound by their terms of use.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by Mindwipe on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:20AM (#23006265)
> This might also be enshrined in Twitter's ToS.

It isn't.

Twitter's ToS gives Twitter a license. But not third parties on Twitter.

Disney could buy a license from Twitter who would be able to use the rights they're granted by their ToS, but they would need another contractual agreement to do so.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by henryfjordan on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @12:41AM (#23003453)
Unilateral contracts are a thing, when one party makes an offer that is only accepted by performance. As the offeror, Disney can invite acceptance of their contract however they want, including via replying to their tweet with a special hashtag.

They made the requirements pretty clear and stringent enough that I very much doubt anyone is at risk of accidentally entering into that contract, but if that does happen, then the contract would be null. I just don't see that happening though.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by shakna on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @02:33AM (#23004093)
It has happened. People replying to the tweet, with the hashtag, but trying to discuss the intent with Disney are clearly not attempting to enter into the contract.

The problem is Disney co-opting two regular parts of Twitter's service, and then claiming that represents a Disney service. It isn't, and can clearly be used for purposes beyond establishing a contract.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by henryfjordan on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:23AM (#23007246)
Disney has someone reading these tweets and selecting them for marketing materials. That is the service, not Twitter itself.

You can set up a phone line or P.O box with the same terms of service agreement. Twitter is not sacred. You can call that "co-opting" those services I suppose, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Services exist to be used.

Disney is going to use some common sense when reviewing these tweets and filter out the trolls and people disputing the terms. They are not out here trying to trap helpless children into a contract, just make some marketing materials. Again, this is not the first time this has been done and is not controversial. Maybe I underestimated the number of troll tweets, but I'm sure Disney will figure it out just fine.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by snickerbockers on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @04:49PM (#23024113)
>They are not out here trying to trap helpless children into a contract

Yes they are. Did you not read their tweet? They literally called it a contract and said that they believe anybody who replies to them with that hashtag is agreeing to its terms. Their choice not to exercise the rights they are granted by that contract doesn't mean that there isn't a contract.

The only thing that does mean there isn't a contract is that their logic is bullshit and they can't unilaterally decide that somebody else has entered into a contract with them.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by miscPerson on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @11:33AM (#23007988)
What if you send back modified terms?

“@Disney #MayThe4th This tweet enters into Disney’s offered contract, except that Disney agrees to pay $100,000 for the license to optionally publish this Tweet and to include it in Tweet analysis corpuses. If Disney doesn’t explicitly object within 48 hours or collects this tweet as part of a database, they accept this modification.”

IANAL, genuinely curious.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by henryfjordan on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @12:25PM (#23008595)
There's the famous case of a guy doing that to a bank in Russia and winning, so it's not unheard of.

In this case Disney offered a contract that you enter into via tweeting a reply. If you send back modified terms then Disney has the chance to review the new contract and reject or accept it. If a human saw your tweet and still included it in whatever marketing materials they are creating then you might have a good case.

Just as Disney would need to argue that you knew you were being bound by their ToS when you tweeted them, you need to show they accepted your terms. The part of your example about a time limit wouldn't fly for that reason. Both sides also have to think the contract is reasonable (not a joke). If you put a bajillion dollars as the price, there's no contract. I'm not sure if $100k for a tweet is believable.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by dnautics on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:26PM (#22999635)
why not go nuclear?

"Walt Disney World was awesome! Thanks to all the hard workers who made that day special.

By replying or retweeting this Tweet, Walt Disney Corp. hereby agrees in perpetuity to sell to the owner of this twitter account for $1, per motion picture, an unlimited, license for any purpose."

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by cookiengineer on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:49PM (#22999876)
Why not go pandemic?

> Walt Disney World was awesome! Thanks to all the hard workers who made that day special.

> By retweeting or mentioning this tweet, Disney agrees to grant every natural person that likes this tweet unlimited redistribution rights and has to pay each liking twitter account 1000 EUR per month per unique click.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by dnautics on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:54PM (#23000563)
well you do want a small chance the judge will side with you.
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by ptero on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:07PM (#23001235)
In practical terms both versions likely have zero chance of success. Sadly.

Although scientifically speaking, the rounding off error of your original formulation is bigger :)

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by touristtam on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @07:13AM (#23005824)
Better trying to find another E-Corp willing to do the same and stack both against each other.
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by JMTQp8lwXL on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:30PM (#22999697)
Even if copyright law wasn't perpetually extended for Disney, it would likely change little. People want original Disney movies, theme park experiences, etc. That's part of "the magic". Plus, Disney has many works that aren't anywhere near entering the public domain. They seem to have positioned themself for the situation where the extensions do not continue.
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by notechback on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:13PM (#23000100)
Ironically one of the things the 1886 convention was intended to counter was publishers printing works without permission. It was about AUTHOR'S rights. In subsequent versions this has been transformed in something very different.

Copyright was not always as it is today.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by Jon_Lowtek on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @05:40AM (#23005290)
Copyright was first and foremost created to reinforce censorship, which tends to collapse when the means of (re-)producing "creative works" become cheaply available to the masses. It is older then liberalism: the right to copy a work was a right of the publishers given to them by the monarch, with the intent to limit who can publish what and under the threat of violence when disobeyed.

Transforming this "copy-right" from a right given by the monarch to a right given by the authors was a key event on the way of Liberalism replacing Monarchism and changing all common law to be based on human rights. One should notice that this "exclusive right to copy" restricts the right to use such "intellectual property", which is why Article 17 of the EU Copyright Directive must be opposed unless, at least, fair use is granted.

Early modern copyright was even more restrictive: its intent was to restructure what became an uncontrollable market: having authors license their works exclusively to some large publishers starved the small presses and ensured a controllable elite that would not dare to print seditious materials. Owning an unregistered printing press was illegal under the threat of violence. It is naive to belief the primary intent was to prevent harm to the income of the authors. Until today the right to copy is mostly a right of the publishers. Authors sign it away and consumers do not get it.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by Zenst on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:38PM (#23000950)
Certainly with some companies with Bot's - this would get very interesting indeed. Dear @{company} by replying to this tweet you agree.........
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by coffeevradar on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:01PM (#22999390)
Copyright is fairly applied to Disney. There were many beneficiaries to its extension, large and small. In any case, it is a matter of law, just like earlier, shorter copyright protections were.

It's totally legitimate to favor shorter copyright, but essentially any duration is an arbitrary one. It strikes me as odd that you would be interested in applying the law fairly while also referring to the law as a perversion.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by matheusmoreira on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:41PM (#22999804)
> There were many beneficiaries to its extension, large and small.

The public did not benefit in any way from its extension. Quite the opposite: every time the duration of copyright terms is extended, the public is robbed of its rights so that corporations which have already made billions off of their copyrighted works can make even more money. When was the last time some copyrighted work entered the public domain? Probably the early 20th century. When people think public domain, what comes to mind is renaissance art and classical music. The truth is everything created in the 80s and before should already be in the public domain and that's very generous, more than enough time for companies to get rich off of their creations.

The original social contract behind copyright was "we'll pretend your intellectual work is scarce for some time so you can profit and then it will enter the public domain". Works aren't entering the public domain because every time Mickey Mouse is about to become public property Disney spends millions lobbying the government in order to extend the copyright duration. Copyright is effectively infinite despite what the law says. So why should the public recognize copyright as legitimate to begin with?

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by kenned3 on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:45PM (#23000477)
This! Disney has morphed copywrite without any input from the public. What sort of contract is valid if only one party changes the terms and the other never agreed to it?
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by blotter_paper on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:23PM (#23000811)
I'm not a fan of copyright law, so don't take this limited factual response as an attempt at a general refutation of your points.

>When was the last time some copyrighted work entered the public domain?

January 1st, 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_in_public_domain

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by RonanTheGrey on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:25PM (#23001408)
So, things made about 100 years ago are finally making it into the public domain..

I don't know.. I mean yeah, but something strikes me as really wrong about that.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by alextheparrot on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:23PM (#22999601)
Some would argue that the undefined duration does not match “limited times” and that the copyright is no longer “promoting useful arts”. While some of these questions have been answered in Disney’s favour in recent times, it is clear that the “matter of law” is anything but clear.
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by cookiecaper on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:37PM (#22999774)
This was adjudicated up to the Supreme Court: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2002/01-618

tl;dr: 7-2 as long as there is some type of time limitation, Congress is free to extend copyright terms.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by cthor on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @02:00AM (#23003902)
Eldred vs Ashcroft held that the CTEA (Sony Bono act) was constitutional.

This is a good point worth bringing up, since the GP seems to imply it isn't with reference to the wording of the constitution's Copyright Clause.

However, it doesn't answer the moral question of whether congress should have passed that law, or whether congress should pass laws to change copyright term lengths to be shorter. That's not the role of the court.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by henrikschroder on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:26PM (#23000834)
Cool, so why not set the limit to the heat-death of the universe and be done with it?
Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by cookiecaper on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:53PM (#23073111)
> Cool, so why not set the limit to the heat-death of the universe and be done with it?

Presumably SCOTUS would say that an effectively-infinite timeline is not "limited" within the Constitutional definition of the word. Eldred v. Ashcroft basically tried to argue that continual decades-long extensions amounted to this, but the Court was not convinced.

Re:Disney claims anyone using a Twitter hashtag is agreeing ... by Dylan16807 on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:26PM (#23001414)
The supreme court agreeing on something is a solid piece of evidence that something is correct, but it's very far from ironclad. Especially when it's not unanimous.