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Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by vbezhenar on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:15PM (#22960699)
Proper cooling requires thick laptop. Take a look at mobile workstations or high end gamer laptops. They are not thin, but their cooling is more adequate (although still not on tower level). There's no way to fool physics and combine good cooling, thin design and quiet fans, you have to compromise on something.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by baybal2 on Thursday April 23, 2020 @05:04PM (#22961403)
> Proper cooling requires thick laptop.

Correctness of this statement is only notional.

All of their current models can have much better thermals without increasing their bulk if they actually tried to make it so. Quite number of other makers have superior thermals in even thinner packages, and, more importantly, cheaper ones.

So far, none of their recent models show a single sign of thermal engineering being being done as such. Their 16 inch model has a thermal solution I would only see in a $300 white label laptop. Yes, they added few extra millimetres to fans, but at the same time they still use the same single skinny heatpipe, and tiny radiators.

And all of that is when they have access to the best parts, and fabrication services on the market. If you look closely on their BOM, they have many surprisingly low spec parts, and very minimalistic, spartan design decision.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by Bud on Thursday April 23, 2020 @06:34PM (#22962338)
A lot of accusations and allegations here, with zero specifics and zero to back any of it up. If you're as knowledgeable on this topic as you allege and seem, could you give you more information?

Which "$300 white label laptop" has equivalent thermal design to the 16" MBP?

Which "other makers" actually have "superior thermals in even thinner packages" that are "cheaper"? That sounds like bullshit to me, given what I've seen and experienced in the PC market, where loud fans that run all the time are very common.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by baybal2 on Thursday April 23, 2020 @07:05PM (#22962622)
Razer blade, Asus GX501, Asus GM501, Lenovo Y740S, Samsung Odysseus, 2020 Alienware M15, MSI GS65, 2020 Gigabyte Aero
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by huffmsa on Thursday April 23, 2020 @07:49PM (#22963012)
Can confirm, work issued MBP 13" is vastly slower and hotter than my personal Aero 15x doing the same workload.

And even when the Aero is running games or training a neural net, it's only ~70°C

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by alasdair_ on Thursday April 23, 2020 @07:43PM (#22962964)
None of those laptops retail for less than $1500. The first one you listed is $3999.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by smnrchrds on Thursday April 23, 2020 @09:39PM (#22963757)
A top spec 16" MPB is 6,099 USD. Does it have better thermal design? Doesn't seem so. It is an entirely valid comparison.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by p1necone on Thursday April 23, 2020 @11:52PM (#22964451)
baybal2 made two separate claims:

1: The thermal solutions in macbooks are comparable to some $300 laptops

2: Other companies do laptops that are just as thin and powerful as macbooks but have much better thermals.

The list they posted is 2, not 1.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by Bud on Friday April 24, 2020 @11:11AM (#22968797)
Um, the "top spec" MB Pro price is completely irrelevant since that's inflated with vast amounts of really fast SSD.

The relevant comparison is to the $2400 MBP base price.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by TwoBit on Friday April 24, 2020 @01:01AM (#22964810)
Y740S starts at $1099.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by dijit on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:18PM (#22960737)
I mean, I agree with you, but you can't look at a thick laptop and just assume it's going to be better.

Thermal zones in servers is a good example of low physical footprint and high density power consumption that cools quite well. The engineering effort being spent on a good thermal solution can cause a device that is thin to outperform a thicker device.

It's just that Apple does not seem to be spending the resources there.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by johnmaguire2013 on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:26PM (#22960866)
I don't think the parent was saying that a thick laptop is going to be better - but rather that when you are making a device as thin as possible, and that's the metric you index on, cooling performance WILL suffer.

It's not just that they haven't put enough engineering effort in - they consciously made a design tradeoff.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by dijit on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:36PM (#22961018)
I still think it can be done, whether it's sacrificing performance or rethinking the thermal design to include a smaller battery and a larger heat pipes, or simply using a lower TDP CPU..

But yeah it's all trade-offs.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by franzb on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:43PM (#22961105)
Servers blades are typically cooled by noisy fans spinning incredibly fast and moving large quantities of air. Not really a good comparison IMHO. A better comparison is simply one with non-Apple laptops.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by likeclockwork on Thursday April 23, 2020 @04:21PM (#22960777)
1U servers are LOUD though.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by dijit on Thursday April 23, 2020 @05:01PM (#22961365)
Only because there's no need for them not to be. it's common to retrofit slower spinning quieter fans into servers for home/office use.

But the same design constraints were used in a mini-itx gaming PC on the linus tech tips channel a few months ago.. I can't seem to find the video now though. The thermal performance was amazing.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by yellowapple on Thursday April 23, 2020 @09:19PM (#22963626)
My company uses Dell PowerEdge R340s for our onsite server needs, and while they're certainly louder than a modern desktop, they're pretty bearable.

For contrast, I've got a Sun Fire T2000 at home that's louder than the airliners flying overhead (my current and previous apartment both happen to be under airport flight paths, for SFO and RNO, respectively). For obvious reasons (at least until I can figure out how to get a reliable network connection to my garage) that one gets run pretty sparingly, lol

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by zneveu on Thursday April 23, 2020 @09:00PM (#22963510)
Been quite happy with my Razer blade 15, it's not a ridiculously thick laptop, but thanks to extra tall rubber feet, beefy fans and a couple other tricks it's able to run a gtx 1060 and a hexacore cpu just fine under load.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by marvinalone on Thursday April 23, 2020 @09:08PM (#22963559)
I used to have one of those. Sure it can run all that hardware, but it sounds like a jet engine when it's running. Completely ridiculous design that would never be released by Apple.

The Microsoft Surface Books also have a 1060 inside, but they are whisper quiet.

Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by vvanders on Thursday April 23, 2020 @10:23PM (#22963992)
I can hear my coworker's i7 macbooks across the room, they are hardly quiet when under moderate load.
Re:If a MacBook Pro runs hot or shows high kernel CPU, try c... by pcurve on Friday April 24, 2020 @12:52PM (#22970200)
"The only explanation to that for me is that they took thermals as a subtle marketing feature"

Yes. And it's not even a subtle marketing feature. Reviewers ogle over internal designs.

But it's also partly in their dna. Landing on the wrong side of compromise is something they've been doing for a long time even in desktops.