I get dozens of questions answered each day through your search engine that before would go unanswered. (my last question was: "how does a digital scale work?")

I get to write beautiful documents, spreadsheets and presentations that I can easily share with colleagues, who in turn, easily can provide feedback and comments inside the documents themselves.

I tracked the length of my last run with only my phone using android and maps, something that otherwise would have been difficult to do.

My family easily collects photos of our holiday together in a single shared space.

These are just the first things that came to mind I used google for in the last week. Whatever evils google do, you do at least as much good as well.

It's absurd to me that you are feeling guilt because of this. I can't tell you what to feel, but people like you have made my life significantly better and I want to express thankfulness for that.

Yes, Google does unethical things. This sucks and I feel uncomfortable supporting it. Quitting is just too costly in terms of personal cost and would not have much effect.

Anytime you get a large enough group of people, minimum size of one, evil will exist. That’s something we have to learn how to cope with, and sometimes we have to accept that we aren’t in control.

There’s sort of a rebel spirit in the USA where people see themselves as perpetuating evil if they’re not actively fighting it, boycotting this and that, throwing the tea in the Boston harbor.

On the flip side, I’d make the argument that one’s personal self-preservation is more important than “making a difference,” and that people have way less of a chance to make a difference than they give themselves credit for. As you said, quitting Google would not have much effect.

All of that said, I don’t see anything uniquely evil about Google compared to any other Fortune 500 or even much smaller mid-sized business. I think I could even make the argument that they are decidedly less evil than many much smaller businesses with approximately 200 employees.

And the upside of Google is tremendous. A lot of commercial products have an incredibly positive impact.

I just don’t think anyone has to feel bad for holding down a steady job, especially since we shouldn’t judge people on their employment prestige in the first place. Having the ability to choose employer based on moral compass is itself an indicator of privilege, so I wouldn’t want to look down on a cigarette company employee (especially individual contributors) for holding down that job, never mind a software company that makes a bunch of stuff that people largely like and benefit from.

I met a guy studying CS in Cuba (he grew up there) on a Congress and visited him there. The living conditions there are not nice, wealth is something most people there don’t have access to. But this guy was asked by FB/Google to interview for a position and he proudly told me how he declined and wrote them exactly why he morally thought he will never work there. Regardless of the correctness of his view it impressed me that he held principles higher than his potential income. If you just follow financial incentives in your decisions plus a minimal ethical code that will keep you out of prison you are contributing to humanities demise. Long term if too many people just follow their incentives without reflecting on their net contribution to society as a whole this will destroy our society.

Also it’s not like you will be out on the streets if you don’t work for Google/FB. You’ll most likely still be considered rich with whatever you make at other companies in this sector.

I thought, though, that "being evil" (whatever that means) came from some kind of instinct of survival experienced when facing the threat of bankruptcy, or at least very strong market pressures. And and it didn't seem to me that Google had been facing these yet.

    I thought, though, that "being evil" (whatever 
    that means) came from some kind of instinct of survival
    experienced when facing the threat of bankruptcy, or at
    least very strong market pressures. And and it didn't
    seem to me that Google had been facing these yet. 

Google didn't need to fight to survive, but they also didn't have the option of remaining "Google, circa 2004" or whatever we think their last year as a mostly-good company was.

I have to say I'm slightly surprised, because I thought that top SWE like the ones working at "elite" companies such as Google were enjoying more freedom when choosing their employer.

Seems like it's hard for everyone then... (again, no judgement)

But, I think the point he was trying to make is that because of these mega-companies coalescing their people in certain cities, the economics of that takes a toll on everyone but the top executives who are already getting paid big cheddar + their enticements for being at the company: their stock awards which if there for even 5-10 years can amount to a huge amount. Enough for said ~managers~ [executives] to do the same sorts of hops globally as ~managers~ [executives] are interchangeable regardless of the product they produce.

I spent years at Google. The trajectory was obvious even a decade ago. There were many reasons to leave and many of us did. I didn't have to wait for a line in the sand because we knew what was on the horizon and leaving was easy. (I did not have a family then, which is a consideration and why I left one of my last startups. Baby on the way, acquired by a big corp and knew it would be easy to become chained to that desk.)

We grow in the face of adversity and challenge. I think as an ex-Googler you'll have a choice of interesting positions that will benefit your career in the long run.

What would work is enough people willing to organise politically. Unions, people. This is a synchronization problem.

Yes. If Google knew, say, 25% of its highly-skilled engineering workforce would strike in the face of unethical business practices, Google would not engage in unethical business practices. Tech companies are assholes because we allow them to be.

There are also companies who happen to make money doing something more-or-less good - for example life-saving medical devices, and even a company like Roland, which makes music equipment. I think those things contribute to a meaningful life, and are a good place to land if you're jumping ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-P4mx1FLU

> All of life is moral compromise

So true. I wonder what sort of life critics of FANG/big-tech live.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

I looked into moving to silicon valley for the enormous salaries, and even when you take into account the insane rent you're still taking home more than you would anywhere else in the world. I suspect it is the prospect of a pay cut keeping him there rather than actual massive debts.

Do you feel like this feeling is common among Googlers?

Also, I'd be very interested in hearing what you think of the reasons from Googlers defending the company, since you probably hear them a lot by working at Google.