News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by corysama on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:00AM (#22863130)
I realize an iPhone 6+ is an old phone. But, this is a simple page with some simple text and simple images that is working so hard to track me that it is completely unreadable even though they really want me to read it.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by ErikAugust on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:32AM (#22863264)
Here you go, 4 MB to 25 KB: https://beta.trimread.com/articles/11029
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by INTPenis on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @05:56AM (#22864192)
Amazing service! Also loading the page with noscript as I do gives me a quick loading single white page with a narrow column of text. No fancy stuff or funny business. Just the article.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by capableweb on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @07:13AM (#22864634)
Heh, just to test it, I submitted this comment page, the space savings are pretty amazing: (original size of 14.3 kB to 23.3 kB) [-63%]. Also, something seems weird in the calculation, my browser shows "24KB transfers, 36.5KB of resources"

https://beta.trimread.com/articles/11158

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by WrtCdEvrydy on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:34AM (#22865727)
It happens... you can't measure dependencies loaded by third party scripts since the server doesn't run any JS.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by capableweb on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @11:39AM (#22867291)
Why not? All the dependencies are hosted by trimread.com so by doing the measurements once (and when they change) gzipped then adding that for their calculation would do the trick.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by the_pwner224 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @10:19AM (#22866282)
The difference is from compression. For example the big stylesheet goes from 12kb side to 3.5 over the network.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by lgats on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @05:09PM (#22871478)
Alternatively, a Google Web Lite shortlink https://lite.website/https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie...
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by totetsu on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:16PM (#22873439)
I've noticed many Japanese news site needlessly paginate their articles, so you have to click through 2-4 pages to read them. I would like a site like this that also could collapse articles onto one page.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by everdrive on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @08:22AM (#22864991)
Thanks for sharing this -- I especially appreciate the statistics.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by bottled_poe on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @03:09AM (#22863415)
I love it! But it must be breaching copyright/terms etc...
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by fnord123 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @03:53AM (#22863621)
Maybe it fits under fair use as critique. It's a critique showing the bloatedness of the original article. And it's only using 0.6% (0.006) of the original to make its point.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by jerf on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:11AM (#22865440)
"Critique" isn't just a vague "something could be construed as critique if you squint hard enough", there needs to be an actual human critiquing something. I see no human here, nor any critiquing text. This would be more like meta-critique, which has no protection I've ever heard of.

Stretching the definition of "fair use" is a favorite internet past time. People have gotten pretty good at it. It isn't anywhere near as flexible as people seem to think, and I mean, like, by a couple orders of magnitude. This particular example isn't even close, honestly.

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by fnord123 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:50AM (#22865914)
Yeah, I'm not a lawyer and don't understand 100% of 0.6% being an issue. Copyright holders get to eat their cake and keep it too. Journalists can record and publish phone calls verbatim (Swatch Grp. Mgmt. Servs. Ltd. v. Bloomberg L.P. 742 F.3d 17 (2d Cir. 2014)).

>Stretching the definition of "fair use" is a favorite internet past time.

Absolutely! It's really enjoyabe.

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by jerf on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @10:51AM (#22866712)
It isn't really 100% of 0.6%... copyright isn't based on byte-count. You may or may not be able to get a straight answer about what it is based on out of the literature, but it's certainly much closer to the human experience rather than the raw byte count. In legal terms, it's basically 100% of 100% of the article being republished. (I'd say it's 100% of 100% if the header image had been included.) Nobody showed up to that page for the 4MB of other stuff, minus the aforementioned header image. Strengthening the case for infringement is that monetary damages are also being experienced, because what is mostly being stripped is the revenue generation portion of the performance of the work.

Basically, if you take the four criteria for something being fair use [1] in the US, which isn't the end-all, be-all of analysis but is a darned good start, this absolutely faceplants on all four. (And while it is technically up to the discretion of the judge, I'd say it's closer to an "AND" than an "OR" on the 4 criteria. You really, really don't want to be standing in front of a judge solid on only one out of four. This is to preclude the usual arguing about #1; even if I grant it, which I don't, it really isn't enough on its own.)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by fnord123 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @11:23AM (#22867101)
It doesn't face plant on all four (there are no ads in the distillation so it's informational, original work is reporting of speculated facts, it is 0.6% of the whole, and as news orgs are losing money, this lost less money for NG Media than had I visited the original with my ad blocker). There is a strong case for all four. But it seems closeish to Folsom v Marsh:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_v._Marsh

Anyway, courts have seen more outlandish claims - and gone with them (Oracle v Google), so whatever.

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by nightcracker on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:22AM (#22864328)
That's genius. I doubt a judge would accept this reasoning, but I love it.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by capableweb on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @08:59AM (#22865294)
Indeed, as intent matters a lot. If the page didn't show the full article but rather just a snippet and then said "This page could have been X while it's actually X", then the intent is just to show the size difference.

But in this case, the intent is to show the full article without anything else, so most likely copyright infringement.

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by crispyporkbites on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @04:01AM (#22863648)
> it's only using 0.6% (0.006) of the original

When you think about it this way it’s clearly fair use.

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @07:46AM (#22864775)
Usually copyright laws refer to a substantial part of a work, it maybe be 0.6% of the delivered web page, but it's 100% (presumably) of the article. The article counts separately as a work (and each image within an article could count as a separate work, there are conditions on that). But, in any case if all the textual context was copied that's still substantial. Interpreting things in a purely numerical way like that would be clearly ridiculous.

Such gotchas don't work in law in general (in my very limited experience).

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by fnord123 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @11:27AM (#22867146)
Gotchas absolutely do work in this way in law. You just need to be willing to fight it in court.
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @03:53AM (#22863616)
It does, technically speaking, and if it's the whole article I don't think fair use applies, BUT the website is protected by the DMCA so the onus is on Nat Geo to issue a takedown request. Second, legality aside, it's morally unjustifiable to have so much cruft and trackers on a webpage. I mean it's loading 1 MB of Javascript for what looks like a fairly straightforward, static website. Even if it's loaded async / after the main content, it's still an unreasonable amount for a website like this; if anything they should use a proper bundler so it only loads what is necessary.

(I've had great results for a site like this using Gatsby + Netlify)

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by capableweb on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:01AM (#22865326)
> morally unjustifiable to have so much cruft and trackers on a webpage

I think the way to think about this is to compare it to magazines. While you can say that it's morally unjustifiable that magazines has ads and filler pages because it'll use more paper and we need to use less paper, the argument on the other side is that the business has to survive too so ads and trackers makes that more likely (from their perspective, I don't necessarily agree with that)

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by zaroth on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @08:19AM (#22864964)
What if it doesn’t cache the page on the server, and the service is essentially a cloud-based user agent?

It can’t be legal to run a user-agent in your computer, and illegal to run a user agent in the cloud. The question becomes, what is the defining property of a user agent?

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @07:56AM (#22864821)
I don't know why you're downvoted, you're right. AIUI USA's Fair Use is usually negated by selling the result of that use when it amounts to a derivative work (but some commercial use can be Fair Use).

I think that the mention of DMCA [down thread] doesn't really work here, that's for sites with primarily legitimate use; if the site in question has a route for acquiring permissions, and has a system to check with users before they (the website service's commuters) download content - to check they have a license - then safe harbor provisions could apply.

Even torrent sites, I gather, tell you not to put up copyright content before giving the opportunity to do so.

All that aside, such sites are definitely copyright infringement in the UK (but I don't now how jurisdiction applies over the internet; I've yet to find good sources on that).

Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by indecisive_user on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:30AM (#22863254)
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by WrtCdEvrydy on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:12AM (#22863178)
But it needs 100mb worth of javascript!
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by dustingetz on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @07:34AM (#22864729)
they don’t actually care if you read it. they want the ads to paint
Re:'Oumuamua could be a shard from a dead planet by adequateness on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @10:12AM (#22866190)
Did you try reader mode?