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Re:Don't Make Students Use Eclipse by DeathArrow on Sunday April 12, 2020 @04:41AM (#22846819)
You are right about first time programmers. But should people come to university without any prior programming knowledge?

If someone applying for an architecture degree or engineering degree is required to have basic drawing skills and basic math knowledge, why we shouldn't assume the same for CS?

Re:Don't Make Students Use Eclipse by fishmaster on Sunday April 12, 2020 @06:14AM (#22847151)
Because computer science isn't about programming? That's exactly why a simple and elegant language should be chosen, one that allows to express the concepts that are taught. Java is such a horrible choice that it's laughable that it enjoyed this success at universities.
Re:Don't Make Students Use Eclipse by DeathArrow on Sunday April 12, 2020 @07:09AM (#22847412)
Yes, a simple language is better to teach CS. CS is not just about programming, but I think CS is about programming too and having a reasonable level of programming is useful.

If I was a teacher and I'm going to teach someone what a linked list is, or what a binary tree is, I can of course use natural language and drawing, I can use abstract algebraic concepts.

But the student should be also able to construct said structures and observe how they work. The same for any other concept.

Re:Don't Make Students Use Eclipse by dunefox on Sunday April 12, 2020 @09:33AM (#22848132)
Yes, and that's why a simple language is always preferrable to Java. It doesn't matter if a student has previous exposure to programming languages if this language can be taught in about two or three weeks worth of class.