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Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by smabie on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @07:56PM (#22754837)
The whole system is GNU with Linux added? There are more non-GNU packages installed on my system than GNU ones. Really the only GNU components that most people use are glibc and coreutils. And you can replace both of them if you really want to. The init system isn't GNU, the window server isn't GNU, the window manager doesn't have to be GNU, the compiler doesn't have to be GNU.

Essentially, every single GNU package on a Linux system has a reasonable non-GNU alternative. The Linux kernel, on the other hand, doesn't exactly have a simple drop-in replacement. Moreover, it's obvious that the kernel is the most sophisticated and non-commodity software part because the GNU people never managed to deliver a working kernel.

As such, it's probably better to consider the system Linux with a little bit of GNU thrown in if you want it. And if you count android or embedded systems, a lot of Linux systems actually have absolutely no GNU software whatsoever.

Free software is good, but RMS has been a pretty terrible advocate for it. His unwelcoming, aggressive, and pedantic behavior has really hamstring GNU tools. It's no surprise to me that GNU software is being phased out (see: GCC, bash) by developers and that the GPL has largely failed as a license.

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by yjftsjthsd-h on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:28PM (#22755048)
> The Linux kernel, on the other hand, doesn't exactly have a simple drop-in replacement

Why do you think the kernel is harder to replace than coreutils and libc? There have been working replacements (ex. Debian/kFreeBSD), and in many systems replacing libc/coreutils is effectively impossible (having once tried this, I can tell you that swapping coreutils with busybox on Debian results in a sort of working system, but completely breaks package management, IIRC).

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by smabie on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @09:04PM (#22755241)
While the BSD userland is very high quality (unlike Linux), the kernels aren't as good as Linux. The performance is noticeably worse, many of drivers are absent, and some kernel interfaces are different. Moreover, they tend to be less flexible than Linux as well. I guarantee that it would be easier to switch to LLVM from GCC or replace glibc with musl than swap out the kernel with any BSD.
Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by yjftsjthsd-h on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:29PM (#22755720)
1. I don't think that's a meaningful counterpoint in this argument; busybox (intentionally) comes nowhere close to GNU's coreutils, musl tracks standards and foregoes glibc's extensions (mostly? I don't know if they've added any in the name of compatibility), and clang doesn't match gcc for sheer supported target platforms. If we're claiming that the GNU userland can be replaced, then I don't see where BSD kernel's don't count just as much.

2. That said, I also disagree that the BSD kernels are inferior. Linux is catching up to FreeBSD's network performance, but it is playing catch up. NetBSD, AFAIK, blows Linux out of the water in terms of hardware support, although it is behind on newer stuff. As to kernel interfaces, of course they're different, but I'm not convinced that that's bad. (ex. I've not used kqueue, but I'm told that it's far better than the Linux equivalent.) Now all that said, I'm happy to grant that Linux is certainly benefiting from the sheer number of devs they've got, and is a good all-arounder; less secure than OpenBSD, less portable than NetBSD, less performant than DragonFly BSD, but secure enough, portable to most hardware in wide use, and performant enough for most users. But it's not universally superior.

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by smabie on Thursday April 02, 2020 @01:30AM (#22756484)
DragonflyBSD's performance does not beat Linux. See https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=freebsd1...

In fact DragonflyBSD is slower than FreeBSD in most benchmarks. I've always been under the impression that FreeBSD is for performance (though worse than Linux), OpenBSD is security and correctness (my favorite of the bunch), NetBSD is portability, and DragonflyBSD is for experimental crazy shit (my second favorite).

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by jshevek on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @08:12PM (#22754947)
The parent is trolling.

https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html

>A quotation circulates on the Internet, attributed to me, but it wasn't written by me.

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by int_19h on Wednesday April 01, 2020 @10:05PM (#22755605)
The linked debunking somehow manages to be even worse:

> The version with Linux, we call “GNU/Linux.” It is OK to call it “GNU” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “GNU/Linux” so as to give Torvalds some credit.

Re:GNU Users Who Have Never Heard of GNU (2006) by imtringued on Thursday April 02, 2020 @04:28AM (#22757153)
If you want to run Java programs you will need glibc.