We're shipping a new version of Polar (https://getpolarized.io/) this weekend that is sort of closer to the roam/zettelkasten idea of managing notes.

Here's a video explaining the new functionality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M6jNlairGc

Basically all the documents you read can have tags. So you can manage all your documents via whatever tag you want.

You can then read those documents in Polar directly and highlight parts of text that are interesting.

These highlights, notes, comments, and flashcards that you create can also have tags.

We call these annotations. We then have an annotation manager which you can manage by tag so you can pivot everything around the tags you're working with.

This version is pushed to the web version of Polar now and the new desktop version will make it out this weekend.

We're also working on a new Polar 2.0 which will support Android and tablets and have better pen support too so you can work directly in a tablet rather than a desktop/laptop.

We're also working on a dark mode but first need to get 2.0 out the door.

Consider adding a link to getpolarized.io on your youtube video descriptions. I opened your video, tabbed away, came back, watched it, got excited, and struggled to find your URL (which I happened to open in another tab from this comment :P)

I'll be giving polarized a look this weekend and compare with zotero!

Would it be possible to export annotations into a markdown+wikilink syntax to import into Roam?

I love the idea of Polar for document management, and Roam for knowledge management, so I'd love to find a way to use both

We're thinking of adding an generic sync functionality into Polar so that you could keep external connections to thinks like Anki, Evernote, Roam, etc.

The biggest challenge is deletions though so I'm still trying to work out the ideal sync framework.

That would be so great!! I think a plain export would be useful to someone at somepoint though, in addition to sync :)

Can Polar automaticlaly extract the metadata from a journal article?

Also, while I can see tags being useful, I don't think it'll really be Zettelkasten-like until you can link from one annotation to another.

yes... I agree. I'm working on this too. The 2.0 UI will be all re-done in React, better mobile support, including transitions. So you will be able to deep link to other annotations by their ID.

Also, going to work on the ability to link them together with a search and auto-complete system so that you can just start typing tags, or the body of the note, and then they can be linked.

Would love to see an option to choose which pdf viewer Polar launches. Wouldn't mind losing out on some features (for lack of integration) as long as I can use my Evince.

You can sort of do this now but part of the power of Polar comes from using our own tools as they support new annotation features not present in other PDF readers.

Does the new version handle citations/bibtex export? I really want to use polar but that’s the main value of zotero for me atm.

We're getting there.. The backend supports it now. If you send me a list of your requirements (just create a github issue here https://github.com/burtonator/polar-bookshelf/issues) I will look at adding the functionality you need.

We're adding support for DOI lookup and APIs like Arxiv so you could just add a DOI to polar and it will fetch the PDF and keep the metadata.

Will also support export to bibtex too.

Our big focus right now is shipping 2.0 so that we have a more modern platform that can scale us moving forward.

Great to hear! I'm actually a week away from finishing my undergrad thesis (ironically procrastinating on that now), so kinda stuck with Zotero for now. Once that's complete I'll take a good look at polar.

Roam is awesome but this and other reference management software serves a different purpose (for me, at least). I use BibDesk (like Zotero and other examples mentioned here) in conjunction with a plaintext (markdown) Zettelkasten[0]. BibDesk to save references (papers etc.) and copy formatted citations; which are then pasted into Zettels (c.f. a page in Roam).

[0] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NfdHG6oHBJ8Qxc26s/the-zettel...

I do this exact same thing! If I write a new Zettel that references something I read in a book (for example), all I do is get the ISBN of the book (usually off of Amazon), use Zotero's auto-import feature, copy the reference and paste it into my note. The whole thing takes all of ~20 seconds, it's very efficient.

I know Zotero has a lot of other features, but 99% of my workflow with it is what I described above.

I'm gently easing myself into the Roam knowledgebase management style by using Emacs+org-mode+org-roam.

It's definitely one of those topics where you could spend a huge amount of energy organizing but not much actually doing :)

Regarding roamresearch.com: How do you find yourself writing/organizing pages? Daily journal with a log of what you did first, then linking out from there?

(don't feel pressured to write a novel in response, I don't want to steal time from your day!)

What I do is just annotate absolutely everything. I try not to think much about structure. What matters is that my thoughts are put down into text. Structure and organization comes later.

Once your second brain is searchable, you can quickly find those keywords and the context thanks to Roam bidirectional links. This is one way to approach your notes, when you know what you're looking for.

Another way to approach your notes is by browsing. You can create a page with the structure or outline that you come up with, and then fill them with links to blocks in other notes. In here, you can practice a step of progressive summarization and rephrase your notes.

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to respond! :)

I'm actually trying to free myself from the habit of organizing/structuring/planning. It gets in the way. Still obviously experimenting.

I'll usually just start putting things into Daily Notes, but if a connected set of notes gets too long, I'll make a separate page and add a [[]] link in the Daily Note.

Have to say that with its latest release, Tinderbox (https://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox) have most of this in a _non-cloud, local-storage_ form.

What is Roam's financing/business model? So far the beta seems free but investing much time in a tool which then might significantly change is a risk...?

They are planning to charge $12-15 USD with an annual plan.

How do you export? Seems like a wiki but proprietary?

The best application that I ever used for this was docear. Unfortunately it's not being developed anymore and some other things make it a bit painful to use. I'm still waiting for someone to integrate mindmaps with reference management in a better way.

Does roam support automatic importation of bibliographical info and export to bibtex? That’s the main value of zotero for me. Also latex math embedding notes would be great

How does Roam differ from a wiki app like Zim/Tomboy?

Roam is way of using a wiki. i.e. you could quite easily set up a wiki to act in much the same way as Roam.

The journal part of Roam, the page-per-day part, is very useful. You write down what you're doing each day, use tags and links to build up a second brain, so to speak.

Let's say, today I'm working on kubernetes. I add a tag for k8s, which is a link to the k8s page, where I have all sorts of interesting links and notes dumped. When I'm on the k8s page, I also get a list of pages that link to the k8s page, which helps me to remember some other subject that might be relevant.

It uses the Zettelkasten Method: https://zettelkasten.de/posts/overview/ and you can also get a lot of value from reading "How to Take Smart Notes" by Sönke Ahrens.

The value also comes from it mirroring your thoughts and experiences, as I said, the second brain thing.

(I'm terrible at explaining stuff, sorry :( I hope I didn't bore you to bits)

Automatic backlinks + all blocks can be referenced or embedded. It allows you to remix your thoughts effortlessly. It's like an idea blender.

What exactly is roam? The website tells me nothing. Zotero has folders and tags for organizing your thoughts how you like.

See my comment reply to Chris2048 below your comment.

It's a wiki like system that helps you to create a second brain of sorts. You write down what you do, and link between lots of different pages, such as "aws" to "ec2" to "vm" to "vmware" to "vmotion". Roam (and org-roam, an Emacs module that I use) shows you what links back to a page, which is incredibly helpful for remembering knowledge and how things fit together.

Seems to me this is like tagging, but instead of making the tags at the end of your thought, you're annotating words within your writing, which become the tags. I grant you that it is more intuitive to do it this way.