News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by SaxonRobber on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @02:17AM (#22682385)
Jesus npm is a cancerous dumpster fire. Guy must have been a saint to continue maintaining the project in spite of all of entitled "developers" using his package and scolding him for DARING TO ASK FOR A DIME.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by cycomanic on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @04:10AM (#22682812)
Actually, while I think npm is the worst example, I am of the opinion that this is the largest issue facing OSS today.

Companies using lots of OSS packages without ever giving back a dime. The argument is always that this helps developers get a job, but often enough the jobs don't allow the developers to work full time on those packages, but they are still somehow expected to continue the work in their past-time.

The guy posted the results of his call for funding, he got to $50 a month on patreon! For maintaining a package that likely 100s or 1000s of companies depend on for the work.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by syshum on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @05:36AM (#22683132)
Which is the direct result of abandoning CopyLeft licensing moving towards the BSD / MIT license model that creates the climate your speaking of.

I firmly believe that Linux had not used GPL it would not be anywhere as big as it is today

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by TAForObvReasons on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @11:24AM (#22685442)
On the other side, GitHub minted 3 billionaires in the acquisition by Microsoft! Chris Wanstrath walked away with 1.8B and probably would have been best positioned to defend the community which enabled the exit. Funny how the open source ecosystem mirrors the world at large
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by camgunz on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @09:39PM (#22690132)
A big part of this problem is "BSD license everything". Make your work Affero GPL, and charge for commercial use. Stop giving away your labor and expertise for free. Solidarity.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by ankka on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:03AM (#22682556)
And nobody wants to take responsibility and maintain it either, not even now.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by throw_m239339 on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:23AM (#22682621)
I'm not surprised at all. I bet there are plenty of multi-billion dollars companies using that project who never contributed a cent to its author yet sent their developers on GitHub to complain about the state of the project.

It happened to a few maintainers I know. These companies save millions in development cost on the back of a few developers in developed countries. This is open source, I get it, but this isn't fair either.

Look at that comment:

> ....yikes. Sounds like a fork needs to happen. And github should really look to provide a 'risk' rating to projects from a maintenance PoV... a project depended on by 4.5m users with 1 maintainer should visualise as a high-risk dependency.

It's not up to GitHub to do that, it's up to the individual or the company to audit a project and its dependencies and be prepared to be able to maintain it themselves. Or pay the only developer to do exactly that.

Another comment (quoted by another guy):

> Babel maintainer here We are probably not going to fork core-js because we don't have enough resources to maintain it.

And people expect a single developer to have the resources to do exactly that? look at babel and the list of sponsors, yet they don't have the resources:

https://github.com/babel/babel

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by SaxonRobber on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:29AM (#22682646)
That's what happens when the Free is removed from FOSS.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by throw_m239339 on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:39AM (#22682684)
Absolutely, free means free to take and use, but free also means freedom of the developers from owing anybody anything or any responsibility.

FOSS became entitlement for big companies to demand free work from third world country developers while making millions...

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by Frost1x on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @09:18AM (#22684217)
Another part of the loop is that many hiring groups also expect to see some public code out there. Maybe it's some library or widely popular project that helps your hiring chances or maybe it's just a toy project. None the less, you better have something sitting out there active for free.

Then, once you're hired and they're paying you, they certainly don't want you wasting their resources (paid time, IP) contributing free software.

The entire tech industry is morphing more and more into a dumpster fire itself.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by kbumsik on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @03:26AM (#22682635)
Yeah. There even seems to be trolls blaming him in the issue page.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by Chris2048 on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @09:53AM (#22684506)
It's funny you say "entitled".

Show me where anyone said they where entitled to his labour. It was him who felt entitled to advertise.

He can ask for all the dimes he wants, He just can't add such adverts to the codebase.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by iakov on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @10:24AM (#22684782)
>He just can't add such adverts to the codebase.

I'm curios why do you think that. If the codebase is a fruit of his efforts, why shouldn't he do as he wants with it?

I would understand that in cases where a maintainer adds malicious code - but that's not the case here. Author asks for donations, the only negative effect of it is NPM logs getting longer. I think he's well within his moral rights here.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by Chris2048 on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @10:39AM (#22684917)
Why can't he add malicious code then? It's his code, right?

Who decides who can, and cannot advertise? There are many ways to solicit donations - the problem here is he chose to go against convention and put those ads in a common space. Does every other contributor of JS packages not have this right to advertise?

Perhaps NPM requires specific rules against advertisement, but the moral aspect wrt is "this is why we can't have nice things", or in this case, why we need explicit rules.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by SaxonRobber on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @10:49AM (#22685033)
Then fork it and remove the message yourself. Sitting on your hands and moaning about the size of your logs being “immoral” is peak entitlement. He doesn’t owe you or npm shit.
Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by Chris2048 on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @10:56AM (#22685115)
It's not "the size of your logs", it's adverts, specifically.

Misrepresenting the argument, and name-calling, also don't help.

There is also the fact that not including ads would require less labour than including them, even if removing them requires further labour. being "entitled" to correct behaviour isn't unreasonable. IS it OK for me to spam you, because I don't owe you shit either. morality is a society/community-level contract. It doesn't matter what is owed at a labour level, quid-pro-quo is you don't put adds in npm, we all don't put ads in npm. Breaking a social convention should require community consensus.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by SaxonRobber on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @11:59AM (#22685813)
What planet do you live on? The one I am from is filled with tech companies making money selling ads and user data without scruple. But god forbid someone providing their labor gratis would DARE ask for a piece of it.

Why should an individual contributor not be allowed to partake in that, when the people who are using his work are making money off it?

A social convention, who put you in charge of that? There are plenty of bad conventions in this world, no one should be obligated to follow them.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by wayneftw on Wednesday March 25, 2020 @12:43PM (#22686266)
Program logs are not the place for ads. If everybody did it, your logs would be unusable. The fact that this author didn't care about that reeks of entitlement.

Despite the fact that big tech makes money selling ads - none of those companies exhibited such trashy behavior.

Asking for a piece is not the problem. If I asked you if I could marry your daughter - no problem asking that right? But if I asked you while I was banging her right in front of you that would be a bit trashy. See the difference?

Personally, I've used this piece of software - but if it didn't exist, there are many, many other options for me and I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over it.

Re:CoreJS: State of the project? Looks like dead. Any offici... by Chris2048 on Thursday March 26, 2020 @06:17AM (#22692109)
And where do these tech companies put their ads? You mean ads on their proprietary website(s)?

Not the same thing at all.

No one "put me in charge" of social convention, they are established naturally, And this one was not a bad one.