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Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by HarryHirsch on Monday March 23, 2020 @06:51PM (#22669648)
We all made fun of South Africa's Thabo Mbeki when he recommended beetroot, garlic and other herbs to combat HIV. Turns out, we have no reason. It did happen here, on primetime TV.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by teddyvangogh on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:01PM (#22669762)
Faulty generalization = the fallacy of examining just one or very few examples or studying a single case, and generalizing that to be representative of the whole class of objects or phenomena.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by teddyvangogh on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:06PM (#22669818)
it's prescription only. no one told them to self-medicate.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @06:58PM (#22669736)
The FDA approved emergency expanded access for inhaled nitric oxide a couple days ago, which has the same mechanism of action as garlic and beet root. There is actually a plausible mechanism of action there, and a bunch of in vitro research.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by maxerickson on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:25PM (#22669999)
For treatment of HIV?

Other poster is apparently talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism_in_South_Af...

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:43PM (#22670154)
> For treatment of HIV?

For any virus. I didn't say it was safe or effective, I said there is a plausible mechanism of action.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by HarryHirsch on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:55PM (#22670249)
You got that wrong. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, it relaxes smooth muscles in the blood vessels and lungs to increase blood and air flow. It has nothing to do with fighting coronavirus or any other kind of virus, it's supportive treatment so that the patient doesn't suffocate.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:00PM (#22670299)
> It has nothing to do with fighting coronavirus or any other kind of virus, it's supportive treatment so that the patient doesn't suffocate.

"Nitric Oxide Inhibits the Replication Cycle of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus"

https://jvi.asm.org/content/79/3/1966

...

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by AstralStorm on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:42PM (#22671652)
Nitric oxide ion in cell is not the same as nitrous oxide gas, typically used for sedation, not taking NO itself.

Enhancing NO signaling in cells is hard. The best initial bet there would be using certain class of beta-blockers. (Ones typically used for black patients.) But please do not take unproven drugs with known side effects.

The paper is talking about S-nitroso-N-acetylpenicillamine in vitro. This compound is not something anyone wants to actually take.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by et2o on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:33PM (#22670069)
This is insane. Garlic and beet root are not used medically for any disease at all, let alone COVID.

NO evidence is pretty weak for COVID. Even if it was true, we’d give NO or other related compounds and certainly not unregulated dietary supplements.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:22PM (#22670445)
> Garlic and beet root are not used medically for any disease at all

Garlic is literally one of the most widely used medical treatments in the entire world. It's used medically by 0.8% of all US adults, according to the NIH.

https://nccih.nih.gov/research/statistics/NHIS/2012/natural-...

It's use was advocated for my Hippocrates. You know, the "father of medicine" guy.

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/3/951S/4687053

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by et2o on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:31PM (#22670505)
I can’t tell if this is a troll or not.

It is listed below echinacea and cranberry pills (two supplements with substantial evidence for NON-efficacy) on the National Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine’s ranking of SUPPLEMENTS taken in the US. If it was real effective medicine, it wouldn’t be considered an “alternative” medicine (a polite phrase for horseshit).

Do you realize how ridiculous that is as evidence for anything? The fact that misguided people buy it in supplement form does not mean it is a treatment for anything, let alone COVID. People also buy lots of Diet Coke.

And then to top it off you reference Hippocrates (literally thousands of years ago). Did you know most Med schools don’t even take the Hippocratic oath any longer? Do you believe that doctors should treat people by keeping the 4 humors in balance?

Completely ridiculous

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:35PM (#22670535)
If people use something medically then they use it medically, end of story. You don't get to say that something isn't used medically just because it might not be effective or prescribed by doctors or whatever.

Knowing what people are using medically is critically important, regardless of whether you think they should be using it or not.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by et2o on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:44PM (#22670593)
Sorry but just no.

It is not a "medical" treatment unless it treats, prevents, or otherwise modifies some actual disease or state of health.

I agree it is important to know what ridiculous, non-evidence-based dietary supplements people are taking.

Regardless, you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics.

Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical advice. Luckily most people with COVID won't try to treat it with garlic supplements alone because they aren't stupid, but you have to realize that in panic-inducing times like this people might actually take your advice and you could end up with blood on your hands.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:56PM (#22670664)
> you can't get out of your extremely irresponsible claims by arguing about semantics. Please stop giving anyone your incompetent and potentially harmful medical advice.

How does saying "there is a plausible mechanism of" qualify as either irresponsible or medical advice?

> you have to realize that in panic-inducing times like this people might actually take your advice and you could end up with blood on your hands.

What advice? I literally haven't offered any advice.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by et2o on Monday March 23, 2020 @09:20PM (#22670824)
Are you or are you not intimating that people should take fucking garlic supplements for COVID?

You have claimed 1) there is plausible evidence for garlic (no) 2) garlic is a widely used medicine (no)

On the basis of those claims it is quite easy to see how you are suggesting people take garlic. Classic motte-and-bailey argument strategy.

Convenient that you also dropped discussion of “beet root”

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by throwaway_pdp09 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:35PM (#22670532)
Reference does not say it's of any use. However it is organic so it must be good.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by throwaway_pdp09 on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:10PM (#22669852)
Post a link because I right now I have no reason to believe you.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by HarryHirsch on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:29PM (#22670031)
He probably means this: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtech/fda-expands-access-to-...

But that has nothing to do with HIV, neither do garlic and beetroot have anything to do with nitric oxide.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:11PM (#22670386)
> neither do garlic and beetroot have anything to do with nitric oxide.

"Potent activation of nitric oxide synthase by garlic: a basis for its therapeutic applications."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7555034

...

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by throwaway_pdp09 on Monday March 23, 2020 @08:34PM (#22670527)
Validated at least by reference, which he has given. Upvoted. We need more than this such as references to it or disclaimers for it, niether of which I can find. That is not to detract from the existence of the paper which he referenced.

Whether nitric oxide has much to do with health is anothre question. I believe one of the reasons viagra works is due to nitric oxide, so perhaps it's we should be viagring instead.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by AstralStorm on Monday March 23, 2020 @11:58PM (#22671730)
Mind you the important part is where it's enhanced, and by how much.

And we're taking purified alicin at nearly toxic doses. In vitro. Yes, garlic can kill. And it was described to be active in vascular tissue not lungs.

Now Viagra is an interesting bet, but it also does not reach lungs or non-vascular cells.

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by Alex3917 on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:12PM (#22669871)
I posted links to one of the in vitro studies here, and in the comments I posted the press release for the FDA approval:

https://www.reddit.com/r/covid19stack

Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by et2o on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:34PM (#22670079)
Your information is wrong and misleading. It’s irresponsible for you to post stuff like this.
Re:Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine by throwaway_pdp09 on Monday March 23, 2020 @07:27PM (#22670008)
This goes to "COVID-19 Stack: Research and discussion on supplements and medications relating to COVID-19!

No mate, post a precise link. This one goes nowhere and I still don't believe you.