News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by masklinn on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:10PM (#22586297)
> OK... but... isn't that what everyone is being advised to do right now?

No. What everyone is advised to do right now is not to withdraw from society, it's to perform basic hygiene and social distancing in order to slow down the spread. Social distancing doesn't mean living like a recluse eating spam cooked on a gas burner, it's not getting into large crowds and trying to stay some distance from other people (outside spitting / coughing range). WaPo has an article with a "social distancing" simulator: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-si...

"Self quarantining" is closer to what you're talking about, but it's for people who are at risk or likely to have been infected, not the general public.

Of course the latter you start the more it's already spread and the harsher measures have to be. And the more you'll have to ramp them up as you realise your initial measures were not sufficient, or your citizens have decided "freedom or death" is a good choice and decide to just ignore it.

FWIW Taiwan's already reopened its schools and life has gone back to something not entirely dissimilar to normal (people do have to wear masks and get their temperature checked to step into public buildings or businesses but they can move around just fine).

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by SirensOfTitan on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:12PM (#22586808)
Plural anecdotes, but: most folks I’ve seen on social media, Reddit, friends very much have interpreted “social distancing” as withdrawing from society. On the NYC and coronavirus subreddits the consensus seems to be that you’re a selfish piece of garbage if you leave the house for any non-essential reason.

The bully pulpit is supremely important in these situations, and no government so far seems to have used it responsibly to disseminate a consistent message early enough to citizenry. Worse yet, in the US ones politics seems to be particularly predictive of opinion on coronavirus.

My current feeling is that the virus was not taken seriously when action could have mattered, and now the goal of government and citizenry is to reduce the carnage to both medically vulnerable folks (old people) and to economically vulnerable people. The latter risk in particular scares me, as there are many folks in the US who are going to be severely impacted by politicians reacting severely way too late who are too cowardly to protect those vulnerable people adequately.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by alkonaut on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:38PM (#22586544)
Yes, but the UK does call far social distancing as much as any other place? And likely soon self-quarantine for 70+ and other risk groups.

I thought the UK (and Sweden, Finland etc) differed mostly in not closing schools yet. Are there other significant differences?

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by asutekku on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:46PM (#22586615)
Until a day or so ago Boris Johnson advocated for a herd immunity when it was not proved to be true for Corona. So no, it did not call for same social distancing as other countries.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by alkonaut on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:09PM (#22586781)
Herd immunity and social distancing aren't exclusive. You want both. Is it true that he called for no social distancing?

Is there a summary of the current recommendations? I mean surely gatherings etc are banned? Football is already cancelled, for example, as in other countries?

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tigershark on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:51PM (#22587567)
He didn’t do anything at all. Football was cancelled independently by the football league or whatever it is called some days later, boris was advocating for no action at all and even football and st Patrick parade where actively encouraged.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by alkonaut on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:58PM (#22587639)
What are relevant UK authorities saying? Who’s at the wheel here, politicians or authorities/experts?
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tigershark on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:58PM (#22586699)
No, they said to do nothing different from normal at all, unless you are over 70 or you have cough. Guess who jumped from 10 deaths per day from yesterday to 14 per day today almost doubling the deads for two days in a row?
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by alkonaut on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:05PM (#22586750)
> No, they said to do nothing different from normal at al

What? That sounds insane

(Today's deathcount is of course dependent on policy from weeks ago tough)

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tigershark on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:52PM (#22587576)
It’s totally insane if you ask me.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tim333 on Monday March 16, 2020 @06:32AM (#22591494)
I think the advisors rational is that we're mostly going to get it anyway so let the young get it and keep the old folk at home.

I think it's unwise for a few reasons, not least that if we delay we may have better treatments. Stuff like chloroquine and keltra seems to work but there haven't really been the proper studies - that sort of stuff shouldn't take that long. And there may be a vaccine. (China rushing vaccine stuff https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/china-coronavirus-va...)

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by derefr on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:32PM (#22586497)
> it's not getting into large crowds and trying to stay some distance from other people (outside spitting / coughing range)

...which presumes you don't live in a place with high-enough urban density that going outside your home immediately puts you into a large crowd.

Like, what are you supposed to do if you live in Manila? Mumbai? Dhaka?

Pretty much the only way to "practice social distancing" in those sorts of places is to never go outside.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by massysett on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:59PM (#22586709)
No, it means don't go to football matches. Don't go to cinema. Don't go to a convention. Don't ride on a train for a leisure trip. That the distancing can't be done 100% perfectly does not mean that all distancing is worthless and therefore that NO distancing should even be attempted. Even slowing the spread of the illness may be worthwhile.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by jrochkind1 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:05PM (#22586753)
Don't go over to friends houses?

I am getting mixed messages, I'm not sure why I think asking for another opinion on the internet will help, but there it is.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by baq on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:26PM (#22586908)
you want to be a part of this effort? don't go.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by spookthesunset on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:48PM (#22587106)
Link to an established authority saying not to occasionally visit friends or you are spreading panic.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by jrochkind1 on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:17PM (#22587330)
It's not that it's necessarily "spreading panic" but that "believe whoever you want on the internet" is not an effective public health communications strategy.

But that appears to be what we've got.

The shaming approach of "you want to be part of this effort?" (whatever that means) is unlikely to be an effective communications strategy either.

I don't know why I asked, I already had my choice of various opinions on the internet (usually given from a position of moral superiority and judgement).

I seriously don't understand why the U.S. public health infrastructure is failing so horribly here; if you want to maximize compliance, it seems obvious that you should be giving consistent and pervasive instructions, there should be literally a planned "marketting" campaign, with a consistent message. If people are getting different messages from different places of course they will be confused and compliance will be less.

Instead, we have "which chain letter on facebook and/or shaming and blaming comment on HN does my gut tell me seems right?" What the fuck America.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by baq on Sunday March 15, 2020 @06:25PM (#22587389)
i'll clarify: the effort in question is to stop being a potential carrier of a novel disease for which nobody is immune for and thus has potential to put great many people in a hospital for weeks at a time putting strain onto a system which is hardly idle. you might catch the virus and probably won't be able to tell the difference from common cold or flu. somebody you meet might end up intubated and anesthesiologically paralyzed for a week. or dead.

so don't go if you don't want to be that person.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by baq on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:50PM (#22587131)
italian and spanish prime ministers good enough for you? don't have better at hand, sorry
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by alkonaut on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:52PM (#22586650)
Social distancing is just minimizing contact, not avoiding all contact (self-isolation/quarantining). E.g. try to go out for groceries once a week and pick a time to avoid the crowds.

> what are you supposed to do if you live in Manila? Mumbai? Dhaka?

Rejoice that you are with 99% certainty way under 70 years old.

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by baq on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:05PM (#22586756)
Metro Manila, a region of 12 million people, entered a month-long lockdown on Sunday as Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte considers a plan to impose a curfew on the area to try to contain the coronavirus outbreak.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-15/manila-en...

Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by dirtydroog on Sunday March 15, 2020 @04:48PM (#22586625)
Try not getting into a large crowd at any point of your commute into London!
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tromp on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:01PM (#22586719)
Now may be the best time to try commuting by bike if you can.
Re:Harvard epidemiologist: my colleagues assumed UK coronavi... by tigershark on Sunday March 15, 2020 @05:00PM (#22586713)
I’m wfh for 1 week now and luckily before I wasn’t in London.