News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by balls187 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:47AM (#22485314)
When I was 12, I went on a week long hike as a scout. We decided to swim across a lake, and 1/2 way through, I got tired, and tried swimming back, but couldn't.

I remember having the presence of mind to yell out help before blanking out. My closest friend in the troop luckily turned around, swam back to and drug me back to shore.

I was scared of the water after that, but some how ended up fighting my fear and earning the swimming merit badge, which for a weak swimmer, was no easy task.

For his heroism, and because I had overcome my near death experience, we were both recognized for embodying different aspects of scouting.

That incident in the lake inspired my friend to go on to become a life-guard.

Both my kids started swim lessons in infancy, and my oldest son gets compliments for his swimming skills while at the public pool. Though the pool we use has life guards, I never for a second take my eyes of my kids.

Maybe one day they'll go on to be life guards prior to college.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by lm28469 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @01:17PM (#22486211)
Something similar happened to me as a kid, I decided to swim from our boat to the shore of the lake, got exhausted 100 meters from the shore. Before going in full panic mode I remembered you can basically float indefinitely on your back with very minimal effort and did just that until I was calm and rested.

Turns out our mandatory swimming lessons from the age of 8 weren't as useless as I thought.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by morgancmartin on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @01:51PM (#22486613)
I can attest to this method. Similarly to the GP, at some point in my early teens while swimming at a small lake, I decided to try swimming across the lake (more of a cove) and back. I was never a great swimmer but I was confident I could make it because I knew I could just flip over and leisurely kick if I got tired. Sure enough, my arms started to burn about halfway across, so I just flipped over and eased the rest of the way.

It's not nearly as fast as "proper" swimming but I'm sure I could keep it up approximately as long as I could walk. Maybe even longer. It makes for a great option in dangerous situations, and is likely a good fundamental technique to teach anyone just learning.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by aetherspawn on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @05:22PM (#22488790)
Everyone should be taught this technique.

Nethertheless: I did this in the ocean once about 200m off the shore (at that point I wasn’t really in trouble and just wanted a rest) and the waves were too high and I ended up eating a lot of salt water and nearly choking and sinking. It put me in a far worse situation than had I stayed off my back.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mygo on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @09:32PM (#22490408)
The lay on your back technique works for those who it works for, and it should absolutely be taught to everyone just so that whoever it works for knows about it and uses it when they find themselves in a situation when it could save their life. Less drowning in calm waters is a net positive. But there is a percentage of the population who can’t simply float.

Some of us literally sink if we don’t swim.

One time my friend looked at me in awe as I laid on my back, relaxed, and sunk. We tried it over and over again. I was as curious as she was. She had to put her hands under my body to keep my body above water. When she removed her hands I’d begin to submerge, just laying on my back, arms stretched out, until I was fully underwater. But she did the same and she would float.

I wasn’t tense, but rather relaxed and not panicking, since I could swim (the only way I know to stay afloat) and knew she was right there. And I mean, not that hard to just lie there calm and relaxed. I have to actively swim in order to stay afloat. And I’m not the only one..

Although strangely enough dead bodies float so what’s up with that?

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by 1e-9 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:58PM (#22491095)
Fat and air float. Muscle and bone sink. Your overall buoyancy depends on your particular combination of lung capacity, fat, muscle, and bone. Also, fresh water is not as dense as salt water, so it is more difficult to float in.

Decomposition produces a variety of gases that increase buoyancy.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by bradknowles on Thursday March 05, 2020 @11:35PM (#22501027)
It’s not just bones and muscle. Fat has different densities, too.

I have very high density fat. Although I’m more than 100 pounds overweight, I still sink like a rock when I get into the pool and exhale. If I inhale a lot of air into my lungs, I can usually keep my nose and mouth barely above water, but not much more.

In contrast, my wife is also overweight, but her fat is low density. There is nothing I have found that is capable of making her sink.

The times we have gone snorkeling, I have no problems diving and I have to work to surface. But she can’t dive for love or money, although she can get her face fully under water.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by js2 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:48PM (#22491058)
My feet sink if I try to float on my back w/o swimming. But there's another float called the dead man's float that works fine for me. It also works well in rough water:

https://www.sportsrec.com/survival-float-6582.html

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mygo on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:01AM (#22493516)
Thank you for this. I don’t think we tried this technique — but yes my legs are usually the first thing to go down, pretty much instantly. And I have a shorter torso, longer legs (when I sit down with someone several inches shorter than me, we are at the same eye level)
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by zzz95 on Thursday March 05, 2020 @01:32AM (#22491427)
A bit of air in your lungs will make you more buoyant.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by orion_uranus on Thursday March 05, 2020 @04:53AM (#22492281)
True, but it doesn't help staying afloat. If I lay on my back, my feet and legs will sink first.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mattferderer on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:26PM (#22490970)
Have you ever tried tilting your head back farther into the water & swimming with your feet slightly?

These 2 things are the difference for me between sinking & floating. Mostly tilting my head further back though.

Of course this fails miserably with even the smallest waves.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mygo on Thursday March 05, 2020 @08:55AM (#22493482)
That’s one of the things we tried. My head was tilted so far back at one point that water started running up my nose.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by nkrisc on Thursday March 05, 2020 @11:31AM (#22495021)
I'm a tall, lanky guy and I can't float at all. Well I do float, but my point of neutral buoyancy is with my head a few inches below the surface.

That said I learned to properly tread water while getting my open water SCUBA cert and turns it it's really easy. Last time I tried, from completely fresh, I was able to tread water for 40 minutes before I got bored and quit. I probably could have done it for another 40 minutes, at least. This was in a pool though so I was relaxed and the water was calm.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by strbean on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @05:37PM (#22488921)
This technique got me through Jr. Lifeguards. I would pretty much immediately get hypothermic in the ocean, turn blue and feel as if I couldn't breathe. I would float on my back and "jellyfish" - essentially flapping your arms in sync, sometimes doing a breast-stroke kick with the legs.

If the ocean isn't too rough, and you conserve your energy for dealing with waves, this works pretty well.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by irrational on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @03:19PM (#22487603)
I think the skill of being able to flip onto your back and scuttle to wherever you need to go is more important than knowing how to swim (and I love to swim - I swam 2 kilometers just this morning). Unless you are in super cold or choppy water you should be just fine.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by scaryclam on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @05:22PM (#22488799)
I have some very young nephews. As well as teaching them how to swim, we're teaching them how to flip over and float, just for this reason. If they can do that, and recognise when they're in trouble, then it might just save their lives one day.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by Mirioron on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:17AM (#22491158)
Don't forget teaching them how to swim on their backs.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by Mirioron on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:17AM (#22491155)
You can also swim on your back and it tends to be much less tiring than swimming normally.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by balls187 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:44PM (#22491043)
Once I learned the "elementary back stroke" I felt that I could safely swim in water again.

Something I learned as part of the swimming merit badge :)

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by hnuser123456 on Thursday March 05, 2020 @04:35AM (#22492195)
This doesn't work for me. I was put on Concerta for 8 years, which essentially eliminated my appetite, so my bodyfat% is low enough that I sink in water unless I take very shallow breaths while keeping my lungs very full (90-100%). Otherwise, my head floats low enough that my mouth is underwater, or I downright sink to the bottom of a pool.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by duncan-donuts on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @12:35PM (#22485764)
I want to commen just to make sure it's incredibly clear to never take your eyes off your kids around a pool. My youngest child nearly drowned in 2 feet of water with a ton of adults around. I never take my eyes off my kids around water now. It's too easy for something terrible to happen.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by divbyzer0 on Thursday March 05, 2020 @08:08AM (#22493182)
Not just the kids.

I was paddling with my 3 year old daughter by the shore while my 9 year old was playing with his cousin futher up the beach (and in front of the lifeguard station).

My father-in-law (late 60's) wanted to join the two 9 year olds who had swam a short distance to a sandbar, and were in knee depth water.

The old man got into difficulty, I dropped my daughter back with the family and asked my wife to have a look at her old man.

She said he was fine, he's been swimming here for years.

I recognised the pattern of short quick breaths and short quick movements. Each small wave was sapping energy from him.

I ran to help and reached him quickly. People nearby had recognised the danger but were too afraid of stepping out of their depth to help a stranger. Ultimately, nobody on the crowded beach was prepared to take any risk to themselves to help (which I can understand).

On arrival, I realised I did not know what to do. I held him above the water for a few seconds, which meant submerging myself for the same duration. He was now a dead-weight, who had lost all control. I repeated this twice more, until I felt there was a risk to my own safety.

I swam/dragged/paddled/crawled with one arm the short (12 meters) to shore. I was close to becoming exhausted myself.

Later that night over a bbq, the family asked why he simply did not turn around. The time between tiring, and panicking/exhausting he said was too short, and he was so close to reaching the sandbar.

My wife did not believe he had been in danger until that chat over the bbq.

He is alive today because one member of the family recognise the signs of drowning. Being inclose proximity to the lifeguard station which was manned, had no bearing on the outcome.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by balls187 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @01:01PM (#22486046)
Kids lull us into a false sense of security.

Stories of parents turning the back for a split second, only to see their kid missing is the norm.

A scary moment like that reaffirms what you said--it's too easy for something terrible to happen. I've experienced it too, just not in a pool.

I'm glad your child is safe.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by dotancohen on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @12:24PM (#22485653)
A family friend drowned to death at a public swimming pool with two lifeguards and his mother present. He was 11 years old at the time.

Never take your eyes off your kids.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by quickthrower2 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @12:41PM (#22485821)
That is terrible. If it is OK to ask... was there anything special about those circumstances, like was there a specific reason like he passed out first or got hit by something? Or was still learning to swim? Before I read this comment, 11 to me seems like an age where you can start thinking about not watching them, and when I was 12 I used to go to the pool with just friends.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by dotancohen on Thursday March 05, 2020 @06:37PM (#22499598)
I don't remember, I think that he may have dove into the shallow end. I'll ask the wife tomorrow, she remembers everything! The horrible thing is that the pool was crowded, and so many other children were playing within touching distance while he drowned.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by dotancohen on Saturday March 07, 2020 @03:50PM (#22513941)
I asked the wife, and sure enough the child did dive into too-shallow water. He sustained a neck injury in the dive, which led to his drowning.
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by jacobolus on Thursday March 05, 2020 @05:12AM (#22492356)
As a passable but not amazing swimmer I tried to swim not too far from an anchored boat to the beach while carrying my 1.5 year-old, and it was fine for the first 30–50 meters until he freaked out and started flailing his limbs in a way that made it really hard for me to keep his head above water while also keeping us both afloat and moving forward.

Thankfully some other people were also going from boat to shore with us, on a raft, and were close enough that I could shout at them to come pick us up.

I don’t plan on ever trying that again!

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by sixothree on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:13PM (#22490628)
My only take-away from this video is just how exhausting it is (to me as a non-lifeguard). It feels akin to driving on a busy roadway. Maybe you learn to size kids up, know better where to focus, who to keep track of, and what to look for. But still. Just going through four of those videos left me thankful it's not my primary responsibility. It did help.

I never did learn CPR. Maybe this is the year.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by bradknowles on Thursday March 05, 2020 @11:53PM (#22501079)
I learned CPR back when you could get a lifetime certification.

A few years ago, I took a class taught through my employer at the time (VMWare) and got recertified. It had been more than thirty years, but not that much had changed.

CPR isn’t hard. Spotting the drowning person, that’s the hard thing.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by Tomminn on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:01PM (#22490564)
A lake has caught me off guard once before. But as a fully grown adult. I jumped in to swim a distance I could comfortably swim in the sea, but the slightly lower buoyancy I had in the lake caught me completely off guard.

I was hundreds of meters from the shore when I finally admitted to myself I was exhausted.

Made it back fine, but made me much more cautious about swimming in fresh water.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by em-bee on Thursday March 05, 2020 @01:50AM (#22491495)
US Boy Scouts have a buddy system when you go swimming. it means that two kids always stay together in the water and keep an eye out for each other.

this is probably a good example of why this system exists.