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Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by ben7799 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:21AM (#22484464)
Like others who commented I worked as a life guard and water safety instructor when I was younger. (Everything I am saying pertains to the US only.)

I rescued quite a few children, it's hard to see in this video because the video quality is poor and the camera is at an angle that is worse than what the lifeguard in the video is seeing. Overall this victim is fairly active and should not have been very hard to spot in person for a well trained lifeguard. (And they did spot the child.)

This is a weird video because:

There are lifeguard(s) but yet the pool is full of non coast-guard approved tubes and floatation devices such. Most places with well trained lifeguards would not allow this. They don't work, can be more dangerous than no PFD, and they make it harder for the lifeguards to see. The worst drowning incident I witnessed involved a child in a tube who got flipped upside down and couldn't get out of the tube or flip back over. (I was not a lifeguard yet when I saw that.)

I think things from my perspective are in a terrible state in terms of water safety compared to 20 years ago.

Something must have changed with insurance liability, as most places just don't even have lifeguards. Resort pools I see these days are designed in a way where sight lines are so poor lifeguards/parents cannot even see children in the pools unless they are in the pool and stay within 10ft of the child. Very different than things used to be. Pool designers have reduced depth & eliminated diving boards resulting in a false sense of security. Meanwhile the pools are no longer even sufficient to be used for teaching up to a point where a person can be considered a swimmer. I just got back from vacation and the resort we stayed at had a pool which absolutely terrified me. I was 100% in lifeguard mode the entire time my child was in the pool, and the pool was so bad I couldn't sit in one spot and see him, I had to walk the edge of the pool to maintain sight lines. (The pool in the video is not like this FWIW)

Fewer young people are supposedly physically fit and able to get to advanced swimming levels and pass tough standards like Red Cross. There are fewer places that even have Red Cross accredited programs these days as a result. Red Cross level instructors command high pay, and most places teaching swimming lessons these days are money making businesses that pay instructors near minimum wage and try to make the franchise owner wealthy. This is a relatively large change from non-profit Red Cross programs back in the day.

Red Cross has always refused to act as insurance for pools/resorts/water parks, and alternate private organizations now certify lower quality lifeguards & swim instructors and we have new things like "Shallow Water lifeguards" that can be paid minimum wage. These alternate private certification orgs train to a lower level but do act as insurance so they're very attractive.

I have a 7 year old, he's been through 4 private orgs so far. None have had Red Cross accredited programs. All of them have been super expensive but they're the only choice available. 3 of them did not have deep enough water and their instructors were not trained at a level for teaching to a full "Swimmer" level. None of the programs seem to focus on water safety and have strange practices like trying to teaching 5 year olds the butterfly and other high energy/low safety strokes without teaching elementary backstroke, breaststroke, sidestroke, etc.. which are more useful in emergency water situations. Most of the instructors I've seen teaching my child show poor enough form they'd have not passed a Water Safety course 20 years ago.

The whole thing is a giant mess. I have been considering getting re-certified to take over finishing my child's swimming lessons, but the course is hard to take these days. Which also explains why not enough 16-20 year olds manage to take it. And there are almost no pools left to use that are not privately owned and have deep enough water.

Also at least by the old standards when someone who was a Red Cross WSI calls someone a swimmer we're talking about a pretty high level. Someone who can't swim for 30 minutes to safety in deep water is not necessarily a swimmer IMO. Maybe standards have reduced. But that was a requirement at one point. And this is not something that requires elite physical fitness or stamina when you are trained to swim well. Some of the strokes are barely more physically taxing than walking if you're proficient. Non swimmers get a false idea about this because they mostly see competitive swimming which uses the taxing/fast strokes.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by smileysteve on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @12:03PM (#22485465)
> teaching 5 year olds the butterfly and other high energy/low safety strokes without teaching elementary backstroke, breaststroke, sidestroke.

I am amazed at how few of my early millennial peers have never heard of the elementary backstroke.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by kubanczyk on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @03:53PM (#22487963)
I just googled "elementary backstroke" and yeah... I'm in my forties, pretty proficient swimmer, and nobody ever showed it to me.

I watch my kid's lessons and I'm sure I didn't see it being shown to them. They got into what I google as "backstroke" straight away, without the "elementary" phase.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by bsurmanski on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @04:55PM (#22488579)
I just looked it up and turns out that's my favourite stroke! I didn't know it had a name, I just called it the "Jellyfish" :)

I don't think I was ever taught it. I think I just discovered it playing around in the water one day.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mark-r on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @09:26PM (#22490370)
That's one of my favorites too! I didn't know it had a name either.

When I want to play around, I try swimming backwards. On my back, with my feet straight ahead and motionless, I stroke backwards with my arms so I move in the direction my feet are pointing.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by bradknowles on Thursday March 05, 2020 @11:58PM (#22501102)
When I took swimming lessons at the YWCA in Wilmington, NC (where they did after school daycare in the late 70s), I went all the way through their process. My next step would have been to get into SCUBA.

They never taught the “Elementary Backstroke” to us, even though this was Wilmington, NC and we were just fifteen minutes from the beach.

The backstroke I learned was more like the crawl, just done on your back. After a while, I stopped bothering to use my arms and did a lazy backstroke using just my legs. I could do that for hours on end. The lazy backstroke wasn’t YWCA approved, but it worked well in the ocean and in pools. The only danger was that you couldn’t see what you might be about to hit.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by dlsso on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @06:50PM (#22489452)
Never heard of this "elementary backstroke" but I'm a pro at "chickenwings, airplane, torpedo."
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by qzx_pierri on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:56AM (#22493976)
I was taught this in my university’s swimming course. They called it the survival stroke as well. I’m glad I learned it, because if I were ever caught out and needed to swim farther than normal, I could totally see myself making it back (although a lot slower)
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by watwut on Thursday March 05, 2020 @02:15AM (#22491579)
I was never taught that and I am older than that and used to swim competitively. I never seen anyone swim that.

Likely, it was never standard think to teach.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by smileysteve on Friday March 06, 2020 @12:49PM (#22505630)
I learned it in a RedCross program; which makes me think it was standard.

I suspect that it was never taught for competition, partly because of its energy efficiency through low performance.

I also wonder if it's more common around lakes and oceans; as it's great for going over waves with minimum energy.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by jhloa2 on Thursday March 05, 2020 @03:46PM (#22498012)
I don't think that I was ever explicitly taught it as a child but at some point I stumbled across it by accident it's one of my favorite ways to swim casually. As someone else mentioned above, it totally feels like a jellyfish swim :)
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by rootusrootus on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @07:19PM (#22489689)
I'm feeling pretty lucky now. My local pool is city owned, and while it probably doesn't get the funding it ought to, the specs seem okay. It's a half olympic size, deep enough (I think -- 3.5 feet at one end, 12 feet at the other), they teach elementary backstroke (among others) starting at the very first level, and while I'm not sure if the lifeguards are all Red Cross certified, I'd be willing to bet they are, since the pool has courses to become a Red Cross certified lifeguard (and it's really not that expensive).
Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by watwut on Thursday March 05, 2020 @02:13AM (#22491576)
> There are lifeguard(s) but yet the pool is full of non coast-guard approved tubes and floatation devices such. Most places with well trained lifeguards would not allow this. They don't work, can be more dangerous than no PFD, and they make it harder for the lifeguards to see.

These are for fun devices. They are not meant for life saving and they attract people to pool with waves.

Typically, lifeguards do police rules, but don't police inflatables or ordinary size.

> I have a 7 year old, he's been through 4 private orgs so far. None have had Red Cross accredited programs. All of them have been super expensive but they're the only choice available. 3 of them did not have deep enough water and their instructors were not trained at a level for teaching to a full "Swimmer" level.

Either you are exaggerating or was extraordinary unlucky or live in pretty bad area. My 6 years old trains in deep water after she learned to float as 5 years old in kindergarten. Kindergarten part is pretty standard. Kids able to float training in water where they can swim are standard to, other peoples kids who go to swim train like that too.

> None of the programs seem to focus on water safety and have strange practices like trying to teaching 5 year olds the butterfly and other high energy/low safety strokes without teaching elementary backstroke, breaststroke, sidestroke,

I doubt elementary backstroke and sidestroke were ever common things to teach. Breaststroke yes, but these two not. I was not taught that either. I also find dubious 5 year old doing butterfly - they may do some fun exercises potentially leading to that, but not butterfly itself.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by mark-r on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @09:19PM (#22490337)
There's a resort in Wisconsin Dells that I've been to quite a few times now, with an indoor wave pool. When we started going they had industrial clear inner tubes that you could bring out into it; about half the people in the pool would have a tube. As you say the pool was nearly impossible to monitor as a parent from the sidelines, but there were lifeguards all the way around. Every once in a while they would stop the waves and jump in to pull somebody out - once it was even my own kid! They removed the tubes a couple of years ago.

I was lucky as a kid, my parents kept sending me to swim lessons until I finally got it. I learned early how to do a side stroke, which is so relaxing you can keep it up all day.

Re:Spot the Drowning Child (2015) by adamredwoods on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:00PM (#22495424)
I learned the side stroke, from my mother, and it saved my life. I was swimming too far in a lake, tried to back-float, but the waves kept going into my mouth. I got very tired and frightened, then attempted to side stroke to keep the waves from going into my mouth. It worked and I barely managed to make it back. It took longer to get back because I had to swim at an angle against the waves, but at least I could breathe.