PhD in Europe is different than in the US. There's is very little industry-academia support in terms of working while doing your PhD.

From Princeton's policies, particularly the last sentence:

"Graduate study at Princeton, at both the doctoral and, in most cases, the master’s level, requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students. The Graduate School’s financial support structure, which extends throughout the length of the student’s program and ordinarily includes summers, is one indication of that requirement. Accordingly, the Graduate School considers employment beyond full fellowship, teaching or research support or its equivalent to be incompatible with full-time graduate study."[0]

It's even worse for international students. Under F1 visa, you can't work more than 20 hours on campus. However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want.

[0] - https://gradschool.princeton.edu/policies/employment

You're talking about having a side job while doing a PhD. GP is talking about (as I understand it - not to put words in their mouth) having a job that will let you take some of the work you do there and turn it into a PhD. Which, admittedly, is not a very well-known or advertised route, but one that is a much better deal than the 'take internship-level pay for years for the privilege of being exploited or ignored'.

No, I am also talking about the same thing. But you correctly distinguish Europe vs. US. To make progress towards your PhD while working for company in the US, you typically need to be enrolled in a department approved "class" that is basically an internship. To be enrolled in these classes, you need to be a full-time student. Most departments outside of CS and EE don't allow for these courses. Obviously, this is going to be highly nuanced with regard to how each university/department implements it. For example, my department only allows summer internships and requires approval from Advisor and Director of Graduate Studies.

> However, all TA positions are deemed 20 hours of work. So you can't even work at the campus gym if you want.

This is not true at Princeton. Unless they are without funding, PhD students there commonly only work 10 hours per week (nominally) as TAs. The regular stipend is also generous compared to many other programs.

From the same link:

"This means that international students on a full AI or full AR appointment are not eligible for additional on-campus work, even if the Graduate School employment policy would otherwise allow it."

> requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students

How can they say this, and then also ask their graduate students to teach? They're contradicting themselves.

All things are true as long as they benefit the people in power in an institution. Contradictory things are simultaneously true. All justifications for the current system, which works well for the PTB are just obviously the case.

> But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to.

Your comment is unrealistic and even absurd to the majority of those going through the PhD threadmill.

It's like saying you can dunk a basketball if you'd want to. Sure, show me LeBron James and how easy it is for him, but for those of us who aren't benefitting from abnormal competitive advantages then it's not that realistic.

How many people are lucky enough to be able to not only work a full-time job that pays the bills and is close enough to grad school and also be able to be in a field where literally part-time amateurs can do all the required academic work to write papers, a whole dissertation and defend a decent thesis? And in the end do well enough to aspire to have a career in your field of research?

You have a better chance of dunking on LeBron James.

"Let them eat cake."

Yes, you do. I work as an engineer in a research group of a top 10 US graduate research university. I am exposed to many different groups. No group will take you if you are not working for them at ludicrously low pay. You can’t get a PhD if you’re not a part of a group. You either find one that will take you within a year or you leave.

That’s not an option for most students, especially if you want to have a shot at publishing regularly.

Research is already a full time job.

Most schools will kick you out of the program if you take on a job during your PhD.

Why are they happy with you working for them but not for someone else?