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Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:39AM (#22434823)
They haven't banned it; their channel is the first search result on YouTube for the keyword 'PragerU'.

They've flagged it as restricted content so that advertising isn't attached to it, organizations who specifically ask Google "Don't show me restricted content" (such as schools) can't reach it from the networks they control, and auto-recommendation engines are down-sampled on it. Essentially, PragerU is trying to argue that they should have the right to force YouTube to classify their content into the same bucket as "baby shark" videos.

It's a very silly argument from PragerU's side.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by DuskStar on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:49AM (#22434952)
And at the same time, Google claiming that prageru is "sensitive content" is kind of ridiculous too.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:56AM (#22435037)
I believe it falls under "Incendiary or demeaning content" (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7354993?hl=en).

Edit: other commenters (https://medium.com/@ephromjosine/okay-prageru-lets-look-at-w...) note that it may very well simply fall under "Mature Subjects" (terror, war, crime, politics).

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by DuskStar on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:59PM (#22436537)
All of those "Mature Subjects" sound like things that kids in schools should very definitely be allowed to access, IMO.

And somehow I'd imagine that CNN's YouTube channel isn't limited in the same way. (Or Fox News, for that matter)

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:50AM (#22434963)
sensitive content

Presumably schools don't want their students ogling T&A during study hall. Does that mean students shouldn't see any politics? These are two entirely different things that should be placed in different categories.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @11:55AM (#22435024)
I believe it falls under "Incendiary or Demeaning Content" (https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7354993?hl=en). And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of schools consider that inappropriate for e.g. middle or high school (though I certainly haven't taken a poll).
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:31PM (#22436187)
I haven't watched anything from Prager in at least a decade, but I'd be surprised if it was anything more "incendiary or demeaning" than "Trump is a great president!" The point stands, that regardless of how many categories they list, the switch that turns off porn shouldn't also turn off political speech. That is a flaw in Youtube, that probably wouldn't exist if they didn't have a monopoly.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:40PM (#22436286)
"Shouldn't" in what sense? Are they leaving money or users on the table by failing to increase the granularity of the filter?

The core market for the feature is schools, and that group is generally okay with the filter being conservative and low-granularity (read: little thought required for configuration)

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:22PM (#22436787)
Money: These videos are playing less than they would have without being restricted, therefore less associated advertising is playing. It's probably not much money on Alphabet's scale.

Users: Somewhere in this nation, there is a high school administrator who consents to students learning about politics. There might even be more than one.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:35PM (#22436903)
As a private organization, if that's money they want to leave on the table and users they don't choose to serve, that's their right. As you've noted, it's not much at Alphabet's scale.

Another company could pick up the slack. Hell, PragerU could do it. Nothing stopping them from brokering their own ad deals to run prerolls on video they host with their own infrastructure. A few schools might allow access, and many will just black-hole prageru.com in their firewalls.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:49PM (#22437056)
This feels like ground we've already covered ITT. Sure, the current interpretation of current laws allows Alphabet to do basically anything they want. We can still talk about what they should do, and better serving users and making more money are both criteria that can inform that discussion. I thought you had suggested these criteria above.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:00PM (#22437170)
Indeed; I was speaking broadly, not in absolute categoricals, and my question should have read "Are they leaving large amounts of money or users on the table." My apologies for being unclear. Yes, every decision they make in both directions leaves nonzero money and users on the table.

At Google scale, one has to weigh the risk of false-positive and the risk of false-negative on a low-granularity feature like this, and the risk of error due to misconfiguration being blamed upon YouTube if it's turned into a high-granularity feature. Because the failure mode for YouTube if they false-negative something that is visible to students who should not have seen it (and generate a negative press cycle for themselves) is that schools choose to black-hole youtube.com instead of bothering with Restricted Mode at all. That's what was happening before they added the feature, and it's the reason Restricted Mode exists.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by Fellshard on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:26PM (#22436117)
That's a pretty clever way to add immediate framing for anyone viewing the content: conservatism is - by definition, apparently - incendiary and demeaning. Convenient.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:28PM (#22436142)
Other commenters (https://medium.com/@ephromjosine/okay-prageru-lets-look-at-w...) note it may simply fall under "mature" for dealing with topics of violence, war, and terrorism.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:15PM (#22436711)
From that link:

Mature subjects: Videos that cover specific details about events related to terrorism, war, crime and political conflicts that resulted in death or serious injury, even if no graphic imagery is shown.

. . . .

You can’t post videos on Terrorism, War, Crime, and Politics.

It's interesting that all USA politics is acknowledged to be "political conflicts that resulted in death or serious injury", but somehow I doubt that MSNBC will be held to this standard...

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:57PM (#22437134)
They appear to be. Only a handful of PragerU's videos are marked restricted. A cursory check on https://www.youtube.com/user/msnbcleanforward/videos with restricted mode on and off shows a handful of their videos are also marked restricted, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZWasc1rC_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSFQos3XTEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZWtdFVU904

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by jessaustin on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:00PM (#22437175)
Mentioning coronavirus is violent or demeaning? I am more and more confused...
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @03:03PM (#22437210)
I have no idea by what criteria, precisely, these videos or the PragerU videos were marked restricted. Neither does PragerU, for that matter; Google doesn't surface that level of detail on the Restricted algorithm to end-users. I've been making educated guesses at the detailed cause, but it's somewhat irrelevant; the answer is, really, "Google's algorithm deems this content should be restricted."

By that criteria, MSNBC and PragerU appear to be treated the same way.

(Edit: FWIW, I went ahead and clicked through one video and that micro-sample should probably be flagged for "politics;" pundit accusing the President of, at best, being ignorant of science, and at worst, misleading the American people intentionally. That's clearly inflammatory political content).

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by Fellshard on Thursday February 27, 2020 @05:08PM (#22438480)
That's key to the current frustration with YouTube, outside of constitutional grounds: as a platform, it's become wildly unstable to depend on, as you simply are not given the ability to understand where it will or will not draw the line, and their application of their standards leaves such an ambiguous and inconsistent trail of evidence that it's harmful to everyone who tries to rely on it.
Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by joenot443 on Thursday February 27, 2020 @01:47PM (#22436369)
I know you keep linking this blog post as if it proves a point, but its argument is tenuous at best.

The crux of the author's case is that PragerU's videos fall into the category of "videos on Terrorism, War, Crime, and Politics."

This is a remarkably wide net to cast. Surely you can think of countless YouTube channels which were not subject to the same scrutiny that Prager was, yet obviously have videos on politics and war.

At the end of the day, Google disagrees with Prager's politics. I don't think it's much more complicated than that.

Re:YouTube can restrict PragerU because it is a private foru... by shadowgovt on Thursday February 27, 2020 @02:00PM (#22436547)
Under the same Restricted Content scheme, Google also flagged LGBTQ+ videos (https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/4/17424472/youtube-lgbt-demo...). I don't think anyone argues seriously that the company's politics (in general) are at odds with supporting LGBTQ+ causes and people.

It may be worthwhile to ask not what YouTube wants, but what the audience for these features wants. Are PragerU videos restricted because most schools think they're worthy of restriction?