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Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by wpietri on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @11:50AM (#22414717)
I made the switch. Not intentionally; it just kind of happened. I think there were a lot of things that made it work, like taking up running (in the mornings), avoiding stimulants, and good sleep hygiene. But the one that finally made the difference surprised me: it's that I'm not a responsible lightswitch user.

I built an automated lighting system such that dawn in my house comes at 6 am and gets gradually brighter. In the evening, it gradually dims, going out entirely at 10. As long as my ambient lighting is the only thing on in the evenings, I reliably go to sleep between 10 and 11 pm. But if I leave my non-automated task lighting on, I don't get sleepy until hours later, which easily can lead to me falling back into night-owl mode.

I avoid that because my mood is much less even when I'm a late riser, so I'm not advocating that anybody necessarily follow my approach. But if people do want help going to bed on time and getting up early, I strongly recommend automated ambient lighting in key rooms that mimics a natural day-night cycle (but with little or no seasonal variation).

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by avenger123 on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @12:24PM (#22415066)
I don't have an elaborate setup as yours but I have found the most dramatic improvement by getting one of these:

https://www.philips.ca/c-p/HF3670_60/smartsleep-connected-sl...

It's a sunrise and sunset alarm clock. I wake up at 5:15 AM on a daily basis and 20 minutes before, the light starts with increasing brightness. At 5:08 AM, I have selected ocean waves for the sound and at 5:15 the loud alarm comes on.

It's been a dramatic change for me with this. I would normally get 7 to 7.5 hours of sleep but would have a very hard time waking up and more often than not, would go back to sleep.

With this arrangement, it's been really wonderful. I now tend to be mostly awake before the main alarm comes on and I am able to just get up.

I know this is not a inexpensive option but there are other models without the bells and whistles.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by cuspycode on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @01:04PM (#22415479)
My wife got one of those (or a similar model), and it was very helpful for her, especially during the toughest part of winter here when it's completely dark for 17 hours. For me on the other hand, I just made a deliberate mental switch when I was around 35 years old when I decided, for efficiency reasons, to stop working late evenings and doing all-nighters, and tried to catch the early bird instead. The switch was surprisingly easy for me, but YMMV of course. And I've since started working late evenings for a bit again, but my sleep habits have stuck.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by nikofeyn on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @02:31AM (#22421097)
my girlfriend got one of those, and i absolutely hate it. it wakes me up with light in a way that makes me feel bad. it honestly puts me in a bad mood immediately.

one thing i have noticed being a night owl is that even during periods where i am sleeping "normally" (i.e., early) and waking up moderately early is that i still hate the mornings. i could be making this up, but it feels quite inherent to me that i do not like the climate and sunlight in the morning. the climate transitions that happen at night and also the light at twilight have always been extremely calming to me.

when i was younger, i would play basketball during the evenings and into the night. during the summer, i would also get up early and workout and practice, and it was always a complete slug, despite being well rested. the air and light just feels different for me in the mornings. also, when i wake up and immediately shower, like for a workday, it feels worse than when i sleep in on the weekends, am awake for an hour or two, and then shower.

i have no idea if that's really what's going on, but that's what it feels like to me.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by wpietri on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @12:45PM (#22415276)
Yes! I started with a Philips sunrise alarm clock, an older model than that. It was good, but I really wanted more light and coverage in more rooms than the bedroom, so I got a bunch of Hue bulbs and wrote my own daemon [1]. I added the dim-in-the-evening thing more as a lark, but it ended up making a big difference for me.

[1] https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by leto_ii on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @01:39PM (#22415853)
I also have an older model of that. What I found however is that if my back is turned to it when it starts brightening up its effect is greatly diminished. It simply doesn't have enough power to brighten the whole room.

Does the newer model mitigate this issue?

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by avenger123 on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @02:06PM (#22416158)
The lux level on this is 315 which I believe is the highest. For me, this hasn't been an issue as it is right beside my bed. At this point, I believe the ocean waves have become a signal to my brain that I need to start getting up. I did have to experiment with how many minutes before the alarm goes off to turn on the ocean waves sound.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by leto_ii on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @03:54PM (#22417326)
Thanks for the details.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by sparkie on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @01:17PM (#22415629)
I made the switch unintentionally too. I ended up with a job in logistics which required me in work at 0630, with a 30 min commute. Started going to bed earlier to try and maintain 6-8 hours sleep. Was working 13 hour days and pretty tired by the end of the day anyway.

I'm pretty sure the biggest change which made me an early riser was my diet though. I stopped drinking sugary drinks and cut out carbs almost entirely after midday. Diet is mostly meat, some dairy (but lactose intolerant). I only drink water or zero-sugar drinks after midday too. I drink Coffee as soon as I wake and only up to midday.

I no longer work the same job, but I still wake up around 0430 every day and do a couple of hours programming before I go to the gym for an hour, then have breakfast at 0800.

Also stopped watching TV before sleeping. When I do watch TV in bed I feel like shit in the morning. Now I turn off the screens around 2000 and am in bed by around 2200. I rarely watch any TV anyway, but still spend a large part of the day at the computer screen.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by antisthenes on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @02:44PM (#22416618)
I'm sorry, but people who claim "they've made the switch" just don't get it.

You don't really make a switch from being a night owl. I thought I'd made switches multiple times too:

* Taking early classes in college * Deliberately cooling myself down and going to bed super early * Getting a puppy that forced me to wake up super early

Every single method regressed to night-owl schedule within 2 months. Not to mention my productivity and learning ability took a nosedive during the periods I was waking up early.

This is over a period spanning 15 years, so it involves multiple stages of life as well.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by mindcrime on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @03:22PM (#22417029)
I'm sorry, but people who claim "they've made the switch" just don't get it.

Agreed. At 46, and having been a night-owl pretty much my entire life, I'm skeptical that you can just "switch" to another mode. Maybe you can, through very conscious and focused effort, manage to adapt to what appears to be a "morning person" lifestyle; but I suspect that people who do that are ultimately just faking it.

That said, I've never looked at being a night-owl as something that needed to be "fixed" or something that I'd want to change.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by sparkie on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @05:12AM (#22421788)
I was a night owl until about 30, and I enjoyed it too. I didn't plan to become a morning person.

When I had to wake at 4:30 for work, I hated it. Now that I don't have to go to work so early, I love getting up early, because those first couple of hours are my most productive. There are zero distractions and my mind is fresh from a good sleep. I'd rather have these most productive hours for myself, whereas when I was getting up and going straight to work, I'd only have the evening hours where I was already exhausted after working 13 hours.

I'm almost certain I couldn't do it without the proper diet and exercise though. If I let go with the diet or stopped going to the gym, I reckon I'd probably slip back to becoming a night owl, and become more lazy too.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by sokoloff on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @03:32PM (#22417120)
I was a hard-core night owl for years (all through college and my first 20 years of working). Then I had a kid, then another. They're 10 (+/- a bit) and I now reliably wake up sans-alarm at 5-5:30 every day, after years of doing that for [or because of] the kids. They even sleep later than that now, but I'm easily up by then.

It does mean that I'm tired by 11 or midnight, but even when left entirely on my own schedule (kids away on school vacation), my "new" natural schedule persists.

I didn't seek to change it (and if it drifted back later, I might even be slightly happier).

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by hermitdev on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:47PM (#22419219)
What I've found has helped me to change patterns is to pull an all nighter, then go to sleep at the target time. Its worked for me a few times, until I slowly drift out of sync (I'm definitely not an inherent morning person).

May not work for everyone...

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by odysseus on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @06:06PM (#22418518)
I have kids and I’m still a night owl. Thankfully, I have flexible hours at work so I can work late. When the kids hit school age, we will attempt to find a school that has a later start time.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by LameRubberDucky on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @04:30PM (#22417695)
Anecdotally, at 51 and previously thought the same as you, I'm going to disagree. I'm closing in on two years of getting up at 5:00 am and it doesn't bother me anymore. I never thought it would be possible for me to adapt, but so far I have and I have no intention of changing.

Time will tell.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by notabee on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:07PM (#22419338)
People's circadian rhythms change over the course of a lifetime very considerably. Trying to keep all age groups on the same schedule is actually a pretty bad idea. Check out the book Why We Sleep. I think especially how we treat adolescents, who are usually late shifted by 2 or 3 hours compared to adults, is going to look barbaric in another 30 years. People think that 9 AM is a "late start" for high school, but it should probably be more like 11 AM. Even the ratios of NREM versus REM sleep change a lot over different age groups.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by AstralStorm on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @08:16AM (#22422598)
Additionally, sickness, including common cold, can lengthen sleep enough to make it unreasonable to get to work early, and forcing (mildly) sick people to early work getting them further sick is an accepted practice.

Or running civic services 7 AM - 3 PM which makes it impossible to schedule without a free day or understanding boss. Something that should be available with perhaps only a minor downtime works only for a few hours.

The cumulated morning/evening hours tend to overload transportation facilities too.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by LameRubberDucky on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:24PM (#22438080)
I'm with you on all of this. It was an eye-opener visiting other countries (USA native here) that were more laid-back about getting to work and staying at work. Mexico City in particular was nice and relaxed when I worked there for a while.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by hnick on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @05:49PM (#22418376)
People tend to wake earlier as they age, maybe that helped?

I've noticed it already in my 30s, I can no longer sleep in so easily and have to get up, even if I'm tired.

Unfortunately it is because older people tend to have poorer sleep quality in general (less time in deep sleep cycles) so that's a pretty big downside.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by LameRubberDucky on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:22PM (#22438053)
Possibly but I don't think so in my case. I've worked 9:30 am - 6:30 pm or later for most of my 25 year career. Stayed up until 2 am every night pretty much.

I really did force the change for myself and it totally sucked going through it. I still don't just jump out of bed and feel instantly great. It takes 30 minutes or so to get fully awake. For example, this morning I so did not want to get up because I stayed up until 1 am. However, I did get up at 5:30 am anyway. It was awful and I'm dragging today. Caffeine helps as well.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @05:19PM (#22418112)
Maybe there's a hormonal aspect to this? Do you think that's possible, as you're getting to be - please forgive my noting this - past reproductive age [menopause and/or lower testosterone levels come around this age AFAIK].
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by LameRubberDucky on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:17PM (#22438010)
It's always possible. However, I forced this change. It didn't occur naturally over time.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by mindcrime on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @11:13AM (#22424280)
Huh. Interesting stuff. Well, if mine changes, it changes I guess. I don't object to the idea of a more morning oriented schedule, it's just not who I have been up to this point in my life. And I'm not making any conscious effort to change, as I'm pretty happy with this mode. I like being awake in the wee hours of the morning. One of my favorite things to do is go bike riding (or maybe walking) at 3 or 4 am when nobody else is out and about. Just me, my thoughts, and some music, and the world to myself... or at least that's the way it feels, for an hour or so. :-)
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by LameRubberDucky on Thursday February 27, 2020 @04:30PM (#22438156)
I was really forced into it by wanting to retain my job. If I wasn't working where I am, then I wouldn't have made the change. But I like working where I am just 8 minutes from my house, pretty good job security compared to the tech industry, pretty good benefits, everything else pretty good compared to other jobs in my career. That 8 minute drive is worth so much to me.

I work for a transportation company and there are a lot of field people that have moved in to c-level positions and have the "butts in seats" mentality and I think that's why after 12 years of 9:30 - 10:00 am starts, suddenly I get smacked with a "needs improvement" on my review. And our technology department is having big problems retaining talent.

Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by wpietri on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @04:39PM (#22417778)
Same. I used to be a night owl. Now I'm not. I could engineer a switch back if I wanted to, but I like this better, so I don't plan to try.
Re:Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain t... by m463 on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:47PM (#22419547)
I think food is definitely related to your sleep cycle.

I tried a bunch of things, but eating at the right time helps.

If I eat too close to bedtime, I think my sleep is initially ok (food makes you sleepy), but it's possible it disturbs my sleep or I get acid reflux or something.

If I eat too far from bedtime, I wake up I suspect because my blood sugar is low -- and of course the body produces adrenaline when that happens.