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Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by themgt on Saturday February 22, 2020 @08:56PM (#22394586)
Not to be a jerk, but IMO this is a good example of why not to build your own greenfield e-commerce solution for your B2C idea. They were a "a New York based fashion retail startup that served consumers in South Asian countries to shop from luxury western brands" so it's entirely unclear why their own in-house e-commerce platform would be anywhere near enough of a value-add to be worth the investment.

Skimming the code it looks like mostly an overengineered CRUD/SPA with a lot of non-DRY code, possibly some security issues, and no obvious major game changer that would have made it worth building in the first place. And building it would drastically slow down ability to iterate on the actual business proposition of selling stuff, down to e.g. the HTML for customer emails hard-coded into JavaScript.

I sorta see this as the inverse of the no technical founder problem - it's the solely technical founder problem, where you're supposed to be focused on selling luxury fashion to South Asian consumers but that's boring and you'd rather be a cool startup writing your own e-commerce app using "MongoDB, Express.js, Vue.js, Node.js, Mongoose ORM, Redis", etc. Like seeing a nail and deciding to build a hammer factory from scratch to supply yourself with a single hammer.

There are companies doing millions of dollars per day in sales on Shopify or similar platforms. You should at least be at a significant fraction of that or doing something extremely weird before you consider DIY.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by EpicEng on Sunday February 23, 2020 @03:41AM (#22395804)
This perfectly describes how I feel in my current position... and why I signed an offer letter this morning to go somewhere else. We've hit hard times and no one seems to know exactly what we need to build to bring in new revenue.

So instead of figuring that out as quickly as possible and building something of value... we're building a 'platform'. No one knows exactly what the platform needs to do, but management seems pretty sure that it needs to use gRPC for APis, table storage instead of SQL, an 'onion' architecture, a multi-stage data ingestion pipeline with more visio lines than I can count, docker, CQRS, a service bus for eventing, a micro-service architecture, no direct communication between services, and a SPA front end.

While it does seem enticing to get paid (well) to play around with new tech, it strikes me as a massive waste of resources and a huge risk. I just want to build something that solves a real problem before we run out of money.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by DelightOne on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:17AM (#22396495)
My condolences!

> no direct communication between services

How does indirect communication work?

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by williamdclt on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:53AM (#22396610)
I suppose they mean asynchronous communication through a message broker/queue?
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by EpicEng on Sunday February 23, 2020 @11:08AM (#22397524)
Yep, exactly.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by oulu2006 on Sunday February 23, 2020 @06:22PM (#22400293)
Is no direct communication between microservices necessarily a bad thing?

I've made a few similar design decisions in our tech stack, we have no "direct communication" between microservices, discounting the shared database. Microservices communicate through the use of RabbitMQ.

We build our system around the premise of eventual consistency, thus reducing the need of blocking computations.

So-far this has served us rather well.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by DelightOne on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @12:49AM (#22411200)
All has pros and cons. Here it is (async) central simple central communication vs central point of failure I guess.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by mattkevan on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:13AM (#22396484)
Totally agree.

E-commerce is hard, and getting the tech right is only a small part of it.

I work for a very large e-commerce company, and I’ve been building e-commerce sites myself for years.

My first attempt, in part, failed because I spent too much time trying to get the tech perfect and not enough on marketing. I should have accepted the tech was a bit crap and only tried to sort it once I had enough revenue to sort it properly.

In my experience crappy tech doesn’t stop a company from being successful if it’s got good product/market fit. It might slow things down or cause problems later, but the company will still function. Focusing on the tech before getting the business fundamentals right means an ‘It’s been an incredible journey’ blog post is imminent.

My rule now is to use off-the-shelf tech wherever possible, and only try and build something new if it provides enough value. Reinventing the wheel, only newer and shinier, is not providing value.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by kd22 on Sunday February 23, 2020 @10:21AM (#22397194)
This is so true. The key to building something that succeeds in the longer term is because you are providing value to the market.

Using shiny/new tech is just complementary, and might even come back to bite you later on.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by notyourday on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:44PM (#22394751)
Their issue was that they were selling to South Asian countries and they thought the commerce there was done the way the commerce is done in the West. It is not. It is video and instant messaging with QR codes to buy.

There are boutiques in NYC that sell 20-30k/week to SE Asia by being "showrooms" once or twice a week for 2-3 hours for QVC-like shows broadcast on chat platforms/TikTok/Instagram in native languages by 20 somethings who charge these boutiques 10-20% commissions.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by 2323235555667 on Saturday February 22, 2020 @11:02PM (#22395051)
I guess you mean South Asia (which really just means India) and not SEA.

I can’t speak for India but e-commerce in SEA is like it is everywhere else.

Also, it’s very doubtful that people shopping at NY boutiques at a premium would not be comfortable with English and that ‘native language’ would be worth the effort.

I live in SEA and when I want to shop — provided I’m too lazy to drive 5 miles to a JV, Polo, Fendi, Prada, Hermes, etc boutique — I can order from a local boutique / brand online.

No one I know cares enough about boutiques in other countries to pay a premium, risk sizing issues. Generally people affluent enough to try to keep pace with trends in other markets travel enough to shop in them in person.

Did you just make that up?

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by notyourday on Saturday February 22, 2020 @11:35PM (#22395173)
> I can’t speak for India but e-commerce in SEA is like it is everywhere else.

In the West we use credit cards and our payment systems are based around that. We do not do live video selling as a part of the commerce. Our platforms are optimized towards static image-based shopping carts with text describing products.

> Also, it’s very doubtful that people shopping at NY boutiques at a premium would not be comfortable with English and that ‘native language’ would be worth the effort.

They are broadcasting QVC-style out of New York boutiques to their viewers in Vietnam, China, India, Cambodia, Thailand.

> No one I know cares enough about boutiques in other countries to pay a premium, risk sizing issues. Generally people affluent enough to try to keep pace with trends in other markets travel enough to shop in them in person.

Good luck getting Dry Clean Only, BHH, Minions, Mia Vesper, Chen Peng etc by dropping by your local boutique.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by mtnGoat on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:51AM (#22395369)
On the contrary i have seen a lot of growth in live video based sales in the US, the younger generation seems to really like it. Ive seen IG boutiques move $100k in product in under an hour, many times.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by notyourday on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:47AM (#22396590)
This is the exact reason why tech people fail at business - their numbers are way off scale.

100K per hour for 50% of the hours $432,000,000 per year. Total worldwide revenue of LVMH for 2019 is 53.7B euros. At 100k/h for 50 percent of the time it that mystery IG seller is at nearly half a percent of LVMH revenue.

If you can give an NYC boutique owner targeting a luxury market ability to sell 10-20k for 2-3 hours a week of their time based on your audience and you can replicate it across different subsections of a luxury market, you will be picking up clients until the cows come home. Of course not single client would actually be able to do more than 2-3 hours a week of sales at most because they simply won't be able to get the product needed to resell. The LVMH-like supply chain is corporate and it is not sold via random channels, so each of the successful luxury boutiques has their own developed contacts with the designers/producers who have very small ( measured in single digits ) manufacturing capacity ( it is however or maybe because of it commands LVMH-level and even higher pricing and higher than LVMH level margins).

Tech platform part here is 100% irrelevant. Building the sales platform on a top of shopify would have had the exact same results.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by AmericanChopper on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:56AM (#22395384)
Traditional e-commerce is absolutely ubiquitous in SEA. Their primary e-commerce channels are web-page and app-based shopping carts, just like we have in the west. While it’s typical to support local payment methods, most sales are processed via credit/debit cards, just like in the west. Non-traditional channels certainly exist, but they are absolutely a fringe channel. Tupperware Parties are still a thing in SEA (although they’re mostly for MLM products), and a lot of businesses will let you order via DM, but those sales are nothing compared to the volume on sites like Shopee, Lazada, Tokopedia... They caught on a bit later than the west (I was personally involved in one of the first major e-commerce sites in a particular SEA economy), but their growing middle class does online shopping pretty much exactly the same way we do.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by notyourday on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:50AM (#22396598)
The OP's company targeted luxury market. It has nothing in common with Shopee, Lazada or AliExpress.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by dreamer7 on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:06AM (#22395259)
In India, we use similar e-commerce platforms to the West and are probably more advanced in the payment infra with the advent of UPI (Unified Payments Platform).

UPI is an interface that any bank or wallet app can use to allow individuals or businesses to send money to a mobile number or UPI Id.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by say_it_as_it_is on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:15AM (#22396488)
UPI isn't more advanced. It's just different. If there is a compelling value preposition for it to disrupt credit card payment processing, it will be adopted. The financial incentives have to exist, though.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by arkades on Sunday February 23, 2020 @07:07AM (#22396473)
>Not to be a jerk

It doesn't seem the OP was asking for a post-mortem of his start-up. It seems they were giving a gift to the community, by open-sourcing their work now that their project has come to an end.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by zelly on Monday February 24, 2020 @02:19AM (#22402243)
> There are companies doing millions of dollars per day in sales on Shopify or similar platforms

To be fair, Shopify takes a huge cut, and retail margins can't afford that.

If I were them, I would have also made a homegrown e-commerce CRUD software as well.

BUT I would have used Django or Ruby-on-Rails. It would have been finished so much faster. And I'm not sure it would even be much slower than the Node/PHP solution.

The reason to make a greenfield solution is to plug in to the rest of your tech. It is easier to make it from scratch than to customize some third party e-commerce software. If you do not have any other software to plug in, and Shopify would actually fully meet your needs, then you should reconsider calling your idea a tech startup.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by zweep on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:37AM (#22395332)
Nobody doing marketplaces etc. should be using anything but off-the-shelf software until $10 million annual revenue.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by dman on Sunday February 23, 2020 @02:16AM (#22395582)
Wonder how much of this is startups hiring early engineers who are only too willing to write new things to prove themselves.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by amoitnga on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:57PM (#22398323)
why 10 mil? where the number come from?
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by zweep on Sunday February 23, 2020 @09:55PM (#22401258)
It’s obviously not precise. But roughly after that you are making about a million a year minimum in cash flow and can think about spending $250k+ on custom software.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by SlippyCrisco on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:23PM (#22394682)
Solid advice.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by say_it_as_it_is on Sunday February 23, 2020 @06:52AM (#22396432)
This company was fortunate enough to have sufficient talent to build such a system. If they were forced to use shopify, they would have had another 11 months out of the year to do something productive with their time. This system may be the v2 that was created following a shopify v1.

Grumble grumble costs grumble profits. Talented people don't stick around to maintain shopify workflow. Management needs to give people incentives to work, beyond a paycheck. Go ahead and refuse to recognize the fundamental needs of talented people. It's a great way for talent to reallocate itself to a place where it is more appreciated and supported.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by marcinzm on Sunday February 23, 2020 @10:02AM (#22397103)
Talented people being paid a lot of money to do something of little value (versus other cheaper approaches) is not a positive. As a business, the goal is to not to employ talented people but to make money. If the former doesn't help the later then that's okay.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by sokoloff on Sunday February 23, 2020 @08:07AM (#22396664)
Useful people will stick around to do what needs doing. Most of them will also be talented.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by say_it_as_it_is on Sunday February 23, 2020 @10:03AM (#22397109)
What talent is anyone developing with third party api glue work? Third party api talent. Spend years in shops that buy rather than build and you will have a major skill deficit when you move on and want to do more in your career. If a manager fails to develop actual talent, that manager deserves the outcome.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by marcinzm on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:05PM (#22397967)
>Spend years in shops that buy rather than build and you will have a major skill deficit when you move on and want to do more in your career.

That's not the fault of the company or the manager but the employee for staying in a job that does not line up with their long term career prospects. You cannot expect anyone to care about you except yourself. If they do then that's nice but don't expect it.

>If a manager fails to develop actual talent, that manager deserves the outcome.

You mean a successful company and stock options they can buy a house with?

If a business succeeds then it can use it's series B/C funding to buy better talent. Expensive to do but by then money is a lot less tight.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by say_it_as_it_is on Sunday February 23, 2020 @12:27PM (#22398112)
You seem to think that there was a better use of technology than what was done in this case. I argue that there wasn't and that they did the best possible thing they could do with tech resources. The business failed despite the tech decisions. Now, the developers have something to show for their work, and valuable skills that others will pay to benefit by.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by taytus on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:07PM (#22394622)
>Not to be a jerk, but

Then don't.

Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by marcinzm on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:10PM (#22394637)
To me his comment wasn't being a jerk at all.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by sumedh on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:22PM (#22394680)
Sometimes people need to listen to some honest feedback without any BS.
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by wizardforhire on Saturday February 22, 2020 @09:44PM (#22394755)
Unfortunately for the company in question and all those that will surely come after is that advice and more importantly the humility to hear that advice came too late. ~sigh
Re:My Startup Failed, So We Open-Sourced the Tech by bcrosby95 on Sunday February 23, 2020 @01:39AM (#22395494)
One of the smartest things we can do is learn from the mistakes of others.

Unfortunately most of us think we're too smart for that.