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Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by jfengel on Friday February 14, 2020 @02:48PM (#22329671)
Voters are too stupid to form their own decisions, but oddly, that doesn't mean democracy is a sham.

Democracy exists because voters are too stupid to form their own decisions. It relies on the hope that stupid decisions are largely random, while informed decisions will all tend in the same direction. It takes only a small minority of people to know what they're doing, if the uninformed ones can be counted on to mostly cancel each other out.

That's obviously a fraught assumption, but mass media puts an increasingly large wrinkle in it. It takes only a small thumb on the scale of uninformed votes to overpower a minority of informed voters, and new techniques increasingly enable people with a lot of money to apply that thumb. If only 1% of voters are informed, and a misinformation campaign can sway 2% of otherwise evenly-divided voters, it becomes the dominant factor -- even if the informed voters are unswayed.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by Buttons840 on Friday February 14, 2020 @07:01PM (#22331726)
Thought provoking.

Why attract the signal when you can attract the noise?

Mass media has been with us for a long time though. What's different about it now? Are people focusing on fewer media sources as time passes, or more media sources? If we're focusing on more media sources, wouldn't that play well in your idea that dumb votes will cancel out?

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by jfengel on Tuesday February 18, 2020 @01:39PM (#22358818)
What's different now is the pervasiveness and precision of mass media. News used to be kind of restricted: a newspaper in the morning, maybe an hour of TV news at night. You might discuss it at the water cooler or family gatherings.

This changed in the 90s with the 24 hour news cycle, which shifted the news from a duty you performed as a citizen, to entertainment for hours a day. Then social media meant you could argue about it all day long -- again, for entertainment. People have always been susceptible to media manipulation, but they've never spent as much time willingly exposing themselves to it and reinforcing it on each other.

I don't believe the number of media sources is an issue. The truth is readily accessible. It's hard to be genuinely informed on a matter involving expertise, but that just leads to the conventional dumb votes. Now, people are seeking out misinformation, which is different from ordinary ignorance. It used to be hard to target people for actively disinforming them, but techniques for that have been improving for decades.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by sjy on Friday February 14, 2020 @09:52PM (#22332817)
In the last 15 years, campaign spending doubled in real terms, advertising moved to new digital media which are more targeted and harder to regulate, and the Supreme Court gutted Congress’s ability to address these problems with legislation.
Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by heartbeats on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:07PM (#22329863)
But we've had mass media for a long time, whereas social media advertising is a rare concept. The former probably has a much greater effect.

The only reason people are concerned now is because Trump manipulated the electorate in a different way than politicians usually do, and this is a great violation of tradition.

Re:Facebook reverses on paid influencers after Bloomberg memes by jfengel on Friday February 14, 2020 @03:50PM (#22330264)
People have been concerned for a while. Even before social media, there was a shift from what was widely perceived as a roughly balanced TV news media, to major news channels run by party donors and being quite clear that they were skewing the news for their benefit. These, along with even more obviously ideological web sites and social media bubbles, were causing "epistemic closure" that helped people believe even the most obvious falsehoods.

It's true that this ratcheted up to 11 in the last major election, and was co-opted by somebody outside of the establishment. In the end, the establishment pivoted, and are getting nearly all of their goals met. More, in fact, than under their own plans. So they're pretty happy about it, and see it more as an innovation for their benefit than as a violation.

I don't mean to be picking sides here. In theory, the same tools are available to their opponents, and I'm sure they're trying to. In practice, I suspect that they will not fare as well using the same techniques. They'll continue to develop others, just as they had used social media innovatively in the past two.