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Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by K0SM0S on Thursday January 30, 2020 @04:55PM (#22196180)
You'd probably end with significantly different results based on country. Somehow the underlying logic of mapping AI seems to be more-or-less of a fit for national road systems — for instance in Europe, with lots of discrepancies between borders, it's really hit or miss: in France and Germany I end up on stupid country roads to save 2 minutes on a 2h drive, but that seldom happens in the Netherlands (granted they have a great road infrastructure). Switzerland is a mess too.

My intuition (listening to AI and DL podcasts) is that they just train too-general US-based (or evaluated or reinforced more specifically) models. Anyhow it's a disappointing situation that e.g. Google maps makes way more mistakes today than it did 5 years ago (but it also does more overall, I guess it's a trade-off, e.g. now it's great for public transportation in large enough cities).

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by acdha on Thursday January 30, 2020 @06:29PM (#22197149)
It’s horrible even in the U.S.: the model seems to assume left turns are cheap so I always get these routes which involve 15 minutes sitting at an unprotected turn across heavy traffic. I, and apparently a number of other people I‘ve heard mention it, have largely stopped using it because the times are wildly off - and that’s along the East coast in some very popular areas, not exactly an obscure edge case.
Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by rootusrootus on Thursday January 30, 2020 @07:39PM (#22197714)
I've been bitten by that multiple times, and had to learn to check a few turns ahead to make sure I'm not about to be asked to make an unprotected left turn across rush-hour traffic in an attempt to save 2 minutes at a light.

I would be interested in trying out a "no left turns" (or at least no unprotected left turns) route preference.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by CamperBob2 on Thursday January 30, 2020 @06:47PM (#22197298)
It's just incredible that major map providers don't understand how problematic left turns are.

There's a reason you seldom see UPS and FedEx trucks trying to turn left in crowded urban settings. It's because they cost time and money. Why don't Google and Apple understand that, and give us an option to avoid or discourage left turns?

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by madcaptenor on Thursday January 30, 2020 @07:08PM (#22197491)
Or even just avoid turns in general. When I moved to Atlanta in 2014 and was using Google Maps for everything, before I knew my way around, it would often send me on complicated routes that clearly were meant to save a minute or two by doing a "staircase" sort of routing with more turns. Even right turns end up taking time and causing stress because I was always in the wrong lane. (I think they've gotten better with the lane indicators.)
Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by cuddlybacon on Thursday January 30, 2020 @07:57PM (#22197862)
> the model seems to assume left turns are cheap

Happens to me all the time.

It also seems to assume crossing a bridge at rush hour is cheap. My only guess, and this truly is a guess, it is sees people in the bridge lane stopped and the thru lane moving and takes the average.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by richk449 on Thursday January 30, 2020 @10:09PM (#22198652)
I have often wondered how the mapping programs handle multiple lanes moving at different speeds. Sometimes my highway exit backs up for a mile, while there are four lanes next to it moving full speed. All of the maps programs show this as blue (no traffic) even though I am moving at ten miles per hour. I’m guessing that they don’t have the ability to distinguish speed by lane.
Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by Swizec on Thursday January 30, 2020 @05:39PM (#22196664)
I remember using some car’s built-in GPS once and it wanted me to take every freeway exit and get right back on after. Because it decided that saves time/distance.

Maps really need a “not worth it” features for tiny optimizations. I’d often prefer a slightly slower route that’s less work to drive.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by K0SM0S on Thursday January 30, 2020 @06:00PM (#22196894)
Oh please YES, the "not worth it", followed by an option to "please take me back to previous path before (because) latest fork = mistake". The very idea of judging the overall travel is a good start (at the end, when they prompt you) but individual datapoints should be reportable as well. I'm pretty sure this would massively help build a dataset with "annotated" cases (good / bad) for RNNs.

> I’d often prefer a slightly slower route that’s less work to drive.

Me too, and I suspect most people — like, when is it ever a good option to avoid a free highway to save 1 minute when the driving is twice or more fatiguing? Are we bodyless machines or animals with a concept for "tired" and "attention"? This is where I feel recent evolutions in DL have been, perhaps, more for the benefit of developers and researchers (efficiency), and maybe not for real human benefits on the user side.

I don't claim the problem is easy, but I know second-hand that what users want and what AI projects solve for may be two very different X.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by johnmaguire2013 on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:00AM (#22199704)
> please take me back to previous path before (because) latest fork = mistake

Seriously. I regularly travel from Ohio to Michigan and back, and often times if I take an exit for gas, Google Maps will assume I want to take an obscure country backroad for the final 2 hours rather than get back on the highway.

I absolutely do not want to worry about deer, a lack of gas stations, food, and light.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by sjwright on Friday January 31, 2020 @02:07AM (#22199735)
This is especially true in the UK where most rural roads are nominally 60 MPH even if they’re barely wide enough for two cars.
Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by Smoosh on Thursday January 30, 2020 @07:52PM (#22197824)
Another possible option to make navigation more human-friendly would be "keep route simple" - so minimize the number of turns, complex intersections, road works (even without delays), backstreets etc, even at the cost of a few minutes extra travel time or extra distance.
Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by codyb on Thursday January 30, 2020 @06:47PM (#22197303)
My Mom doesn’t even use a cellphone, much less map directions. But she always is amazed at the directions given because she’ll pull out a map and do something with 3 turns what’ll have 20 turns on the map direction.

She’s certainly not wrong that from a UX perspective, simple can be really nice, especially if you’re driving on crowded roads and want to focus on driving.

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by manicpolymath on Thursday January 30, 2020 @06:36PM (#22197214)
> I remember using some car’s built-in GPS once and it wanted me to take every freeway exit and get right back on after. Because it decided that saves time/distance.

It feels like cheating to the other drivers who didn’t take the “short cut” and leads to delays all around due to the extra merging going on. (exhibit A: I-85N vs. I-285 in Atlanta, aka Spaghetti Junction)

Re:Apple delivers a new redesigned Maps for users in the Uni... by scarface74 on Thursday January 30, 2020 @10:47PM (#22198846)
I live in Atlanta. I’m curious what do you mean?