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Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by BitwiseFool on Friday January 24, 2020 @11:44AM (#22139883)
I've actually moved to other search engines because the quality of the results have gone down dramatically. It seems like google will fixate on one or two keywords in my search (usually the most generic ones) and ignore the rest. In addition, the old google tricks like using quotes for literal values no longer seems to work. It is like google is guessing what I want, rather than trying to find what I have entered as a query.

I don't know if this is because SEO has poisoned their index, or if I'm not googling "correctly" anymore.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by rurp on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:12PM (#22140233)
Google ignoring what I had actually typed and instead showing results to a more popular query that was similar, but distinctly different, is what finally got me to switch over to DuckDuckGo. Now that I've gotten used to DDG I find Google unpleasant to use. The amount of ads and clutter on the page is distracting, and the organic results seemed ever more skewed towards ecommerce results.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by int_19h on Friday January 24, 2020 @06:04PM (#22143217)
Indeed! It's got to the point where I have to quote like 80% of the keywords in my query, just so that it doesn't throw them away. Because if I do not, I've had cases where it would throw away 2 out of 3 keywords for some results - and, as you say, it's usually the less generic ones that get thrown out.

Even worse, sometimes instead of striking them out, it substitutes them with "synonyms" that are anything but. For example, if you search for FreeBSD, you sometimes get results where "linux" is highlighted as a keyword. I'm pretty sure that this is some ML crap doing this, because the more obscure the term, the more likely it is to get it not just wrong, but hilariously wrong, even to the point of meaning the opposite.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by Semaphor on Friday January 24, 2020 @04:01PM (#22142428)
DDG only just recently added the feature that they show you which terms they ignored… most of the time. This is actually my main problem with DDG (which is my default search engine), that they like to ignore even quotation mark-forced words. My impression is that Google sees "" as an important signal for what you want while DDG sees it as something you probably did by mistake and decides to show you a ton of unrelated results (with the word not even showing up at all), even on the first page. It’s the one thing that annoys me about the otherwise superior search of DDG.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by celticmusic on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:36PM (#22143065)
I was under the impression that google ignores quotes, atleast that was my experience starting years ago before I switched to DDG.

Maybe they changed that stance at some point?

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by friedegg on Friday January 24, 2020 @05:55PM (#22143163)
They used quotes to take the place of + which used to be a prefix you could add for words that were required. We lost + to Google+.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by celticmusic on Friday January 24, 2020 @06:13PM (#22143259)
maybe that's what it was. Used to quotes meant "look for this exact sequence of letters", and at some point that started to maybe work sometimes, and maybe not othertimes.

It sounds like what you're saying is that it acts more like a typical full-text index now? I suppose it's better than nothing, but still not what I would like to see happen.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by lanstin on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:30PM (#22140431)
Some of that skew might be their algorithm noticing that the great unwashed masses are looking for ecommerce. I should give DDG another try, it was not that great last time I tried (few years ago?)
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by reaperducer on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:01PM (#22140777)
Some of that skew might be their algorithm noticing that the great unwashed masses are looking for ecommerce.

I don't believe that it's the masses looking for e-commerce sites. I think it's that Google wants people to click on e-commerce sites because it makes money off of those ads. And even if someone doesn't click on a sponsored link to an e-commerce site, that click still reinforces in their mind that Google is the place to start shopping.

There was a comment on HN yesterday where someone wrote something like, "Did you know there are countries where people who want to buy things just go to amazon.com directly and don't search for their item in Google?" I was floored. It never occurred to me that if I want to buy something at amazon.com that I would involve Google in any way. But there must be legions of people who do this, or that person wouldn't have made that statement.

At the same time, I think that Google falls down at this kind of lead generation because it allows so much automation that it can't be trusted.

I just put "rocket to mars" in Google and the top results are ads for Wal-Mart and Michael's.

To be fair, the duck isn't much better. I just put "f-14 fighter jet" into Duck and got an ad for "Fighter Jets For Sale near you" with a link to an auto repair shop.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by smichel17 on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:38PM (#22141139)
I've seen people type "example" into the address bar, hit enter, then click the Google link to example.com, without realizing that they could just add ".com" to the end of their initial query and go directly to their destination.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by praxulus on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:24PM (#22142089)
If you have a typo in the name, Google will fix it for you, whereas your browser will happily take you to a domain that is probably owned by a scammer.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by xp84 on Friday January 24, 2020 @04:00PM (#22142414)
One could argue that since Google is JUST as happy to take money from scammers for an ad for the keyword WellsFrago as the Registry would be to sell the domain WellsFrago dot com ... I'm not sure either approach is technically safer than the other if you're prone to typos. I think (gasp) bookmarking the important sites you need is the only safe approach.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by takk309 on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:01PM (#22141339)
My wife does this all the time. If she wants to go to Prime video she types "Amazon Prime Video" into her address bar then clicks the first Google result, often the ad for Prime Video.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by unlinked_dll on Friday January 24, 2020 @09:18PM (#22144203)
To be fair, the actual page navigation to amazon prime video is not straightforward.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by sdoering on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:14PM (#22142000)
If I do not like a company but need to visit their site, I also do this just to increase the cost for said company as Google Ads are 'cost per click'.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by xp84 on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:58PM (#22142380)
^ This works really well except for if the company you don't like is Google :D

Oh, I tried an alternate approach and it didn't work... Search bing for Google and you just get a second bing. https://imgur.com/a/YntBiYc

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by bluGill on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:49PM (#22141802)
I started doing that years back. I'm a bad speller and sometimes the url is example.net where example.com exists as some scam that I wouldn't want but looks like the real example.net. Google will correct my spelling and find the correct string to put after the name.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by eckza on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:58PM (#22140751)
I switched to DDG about a month ago, and the results are always dead-on for me.

I don’t even notice that it’s not Google anymore.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by suifbwish on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:06PM (#22140832)
In theory websites could kill off googles dominance by blacklisting their crawler and only caring about traffic from DDG and other lesser known engines
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by rstupek on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:26PM (#22141586)
and probably kill themselves off the internet at the same time
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by suifbwish on Saturday January 25, 2020 @11:44AM (#22147067)
If enough websites did it, google would become just a giant resolver for corporate content that everyone already knows about. It would effectively fork the internet into google and non google. We just need a few search engines that can compete of quality.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by incompatible on Friday January 24, 2020 @10:38PM (#22144479)
I think that they are more likely to do the reverse: ban bots but add an exception for Google.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by aphextim on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:44PM (#22140576)
I bounce between DDG and Qwant. I usually can find what I am looking for from one of those two options.

https://www.qwant.com/

https://duckduckgo.com/

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by baruchel on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:43PM (#22141745)
I strongly suggest using https://lite.qwant.com rather than the main page in order to keep a more minimalist display.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by aphextim on Monday January 27, 2020 @11:43AM (#22160996)
Thank you for this!
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by BitwiseFool on Friday January 24, 2020 @06:43PM (#22143432)
Thanks for sharing, I hadn't heard of Qwant before.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by braythwayt on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:43PM (#22140574)
* Some of that skew might be their algorithm noticing that the great unwashed masses are looking for ecommerce*

Not necessarily. The great unwashed masses may not be searching for ecommerce, but people not searching for ecommerce may not be monetizable.

Let's say we run a basketball web site that has a search engine. People sometimes type the word "travel" into the search bar.

We can show them results related to the rules violation of "travelling," and/or results related to physical travel such as "trusted partners" who provide charter trips to playoff games.

It could be that we know that 90% of the searches for the word "travel" are for the rules violation. But the remaining 10% are the ones that click on ads. And we get a kickback when someone clicks on an ad on our site.

If all we care about is the web site's revenue, we might choose to prioritize showing travel to basketball games, even though we know it's only relevant for 10% of the users who query the word "travel."

It may only be 10% of our users, but it's 100% of our revenue from keyword searches for "travel." So we show the monetizable results, and maybe--if we are feeling generous--we'll show a little line, "Showing results for travel to games. Click here to search for travel (violation)."

--

TL;DR: We don't need to assume that Google is trying to provide good search results for everyone. They might be trying to provide the results that maximize their immediate revenue.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by kevmo on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:06PM (#22141383)
This was also my experience. Took me a few days to get used to something new; now I actively prefer it.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by gregcrv on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:01PM (#22140090)
They are definitely trying to guess what you are searching for. One thing that drives me crazy is that they assume all of your searches are geographically or linguistically "local", they don't have an international search mode where the most relevant result in the world shows up.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by reaperducer on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:08PM (#22140849)
One thing that drives me crazy is that they assume all of your searches are geographically or linguistically "local"

It wouldn't be so terrible, except that Google is extraordinarily bad at geolocation.

Right now, Google thinks my work computer is in southern New Mexico. Google thinks my personal computer, right next to it, is in northern Nevada. Google thinks my mobile phone, in between the two, is in Los Angeles. All of those locations are hundreds of miles wrong.

But it gets even worse when you want to know about something in a place other than where you're standing right now. It's like nobody inside Google has ever done any trip planning in their entire lives.

Apple Maps has the opposite problem, though. If I want to search for a German restaurant near my location in the United States, it will show me places in Germany.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by gowld on Friday January 24, 2020 @09:43PM (#22144285)
How is Google supposed to know which location you want if you don't tell it and you don't want it to guess? It can't customize results just for you and serve bad results to the other 99% of users.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by reaperducer on Saturday January 25, 2020 @12:01AM (#22144812)
It could just not customize my results.

When I search for "peking duck recipe" show me a recipe for peking duck, and don't show me "local" restaurants which are 300 miles away.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by extropy on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:07PM (#22140157)
Yes, Google is definately not a keyword search engine anymore, and not a great "question answering" engine yet. Uncanney walley?
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by scarejunba on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:37PM (#22141682)
"whats the movie where all the kids shoot ewch other on an island"

Pretty good for me. Gives me Battle Royale.

"whos the african warlord who has that laughing gif"

Top result is video of "Idi Amin laughing on a boat". Just the thing I was thinking of.

Pretty good.

"whats the name of the principle that two particles csnt have the same characteristics"

Pauli's Exclusion Principle as the top result. Great.

Google has always worked really well for me.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by hunter-gatherer on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:41PM (#22140549)
Google trying to guess everything I was doing before me is what finally broke me from them. The day (not terrible long ago) I started typing an email in gmail and they were auto-typing entire sentences for me I lost it. I don't need an algorithm to help dictate my sentence structure. I can do that on me own.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by scarejunba on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:29PM (#22141616)
That one showed up as a pop-up box for me and asked me if I wanted to turn on suggestions. I don't think they changed that.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by SolaceQuantum on Friday January 24, 2020 @04:13PM (#22142519)
If you ignore/x/adblock the popup it'll assume yes.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by javiercr on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:25PM (#22140386)
To get the old behaviour for literal search using quotes enable the "Verbatim mode" (Tools > All results > Verbatim)

It's a must if you're a developer searching for some obscure error message, yet still most people don't know about it.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by JohnFen on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:56PM (#22140710)
> To get the old behaviour for literal search using quotes enable the "Verbatim mode" (Tools > All results > Verbatim)

That hasn't worked for me for a long time.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by reaperducer on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:03PM (#22140792)
To get the old behaviour for literal search using quotes enable the "Verbatim mode"

This isn't always honored. Google has been inconsistent with this for at least two years. It's noted on HN every time someone brings this up.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by gshdg on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:34PM (#22141089)
I tend to get zero results in verbatim and then find what I'm looking for after following a rabbit hole from some other search. It's like Google's given up on indexing more than 5% of the web any more.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by gnusci on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:48PM (#22140628)
While I find your answer very helpful. Now I first search with Qliqz and DDG coding related stuff! It is almost impossible nowadays to find an accurate technical result out of so many adds with Google.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by mthoms on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:53PM (#22141833)
Thanks for pointing this out.

I just noticed that with "Verbatim mode" enabled, Google doesn't even try to estimate the number of results available. I find that curious.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by inetknght on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:11PM (#22141435)
> To get the old behaviour for literal search using quotes enable the "Verbatim mode"

This is IMO very power-user-hostile.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by II2II on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:48PM (#22140627)
Perhaps they should create "Google Pro" that searches for what people ask for rather than trying to interpret what they mean. Don't get me wrong, the interpretations can be useful for generic queries. On the other hand, it is annoying when I know the exact terms that I need.

> I've actually moved to other search engines because the quality of the results have gone down dramatically.

Agreed. It also reminds me that the old engines weren't so much bad or that Google was better as the quality of the old engines degraded with time (may that be from the index being poisoned, paid inclusion of results, or something else).

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by dodobirdlord on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:39PM (#22141700)
It exists, there are several configuration options you can enable.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by toss1 on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:47PM (#22141217)
YEs.

Switched to DuckDuckGo a few months ago and haven't looked back, the results pages are much cleaner, like the old Google results.

One blatant issue with Google (& DDG still often does not get right) is the search for a specific busines - using the exact business name and sometimes even town - I expect their listing to be at the top. Instead there's piles of Yelp & listing pages, and I often cannot even find the actual Item for which I'm searching - sometimes have to go to the indexers, hunt for their posting of the intended [website], and go that way.

Opportunity for someone to get it actually right...

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by flyingfences on Friday January 24, 2020 @02:15PM (#22141476)
When I'm searching for local businesses, I find I get better results from searching GMaps than through the regular Google search.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by dmos62 on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:06PM (#22141934)
What search engines are you using? I'm displeased with Google's search results, but others seem to be just trying to emulate it (and badly).
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by BitwiseFool on Friday January 24, 2020 @06:41PM (#22143427)
A mix between Bing and DuckDuckGo for general keyword searches and I use Apple Maps to search for local businesses.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by tsila on Sunday January 26, 2020 @07:09AM (#22151692)
you might want to give shmoogle.world a try. It's growing rapidly in the artists community
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by fiatjaf on Friday January 24, 2020 @07:18PM (#22143609)
This.

Please search engine, listen to this: it's ok if you don't have any results for what I'm searching. I want to know fast when there are no results, so I can try other queries. I don't want to open a dozen of pages before realizing you didn't had any results so only gave me garbage.

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by aaronscott on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:48PM (#22142296)
I noticed this behavior starting around the time the ranking algorithm became more ML driven. I think this may have been late 2015[0].

I switched to Duck Duck Go a few months back, at first for privacy reasons, but now find myself preferring that search engine's results for most things.

[0] https://searchengineland.com/8-major-google-algorithm-update...

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by coldpie on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:27PM (#22140409)
> the old google tricks like using quotes for literal values no longer seems to work

I've seen people say this, but it still seems to work for me, and is even documented here: https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433?visit_id...

Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by Q6T46nT668w6i3m on Friday January 24, 2020 @12:36PM (#22140488)
Weird. It hasn’t worked for me in months. Maybe longer. Maybe I’m part of some UX strata.
Re:How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? by mehrdadn on Friday January 24, 2020 @01:06PM (#22140823)
Would you have an example to share?