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Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by dredmorbius on Monday January 20, 2020 @03:21PM (#22101813)
Two standout points from this essay:

1. I've long heard that various SaaS companies really didn't like the Affero General Public License. Kuhn makes a case for why this is a validly justified concern, something I'd not previously considered.

2. The copyleft restriction termination is a really interesting concept, though not without its own set of consequences which should be closely examined. Historically, the advantage of copyleft has been that it applies equally to all. The abuse of it (by firms also marketing properietary solutions) is a problem, but removing copyleft obligations entirely might not go as intended.

3. Copyright assignments to copylefted codebases without an explicit restriction of those to require copyleft-only usage, a distinction which differentiates strongly between the uses at, say, FSF vs. MySQL AG / Oracle, clearly also present issues, as has long been argued.

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by kazinator on Monday January 20, 2020 @04:08PM (#22102103)
That Affero license doesn't seem very useful, because if you depend on code running on someone else's server, it doesn't help you if you have an honest copy of the source code that is actually running on it. You still don't control it. You can't make changes and deploy it to that server, or update it yourself, etc..

Free, open-source software is about control: controlling what code manipulates your data.

In short, it seems that the license really doesn't really do much of substance for the user, and just saddles the operator with extra burdens.

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by dredmorbius on Monday January 20, 2020 @04:26PM (#22102216)
The Affero license gives you precisely the rights to the code. No, it doesn't give you rights to the server the code runs on, but you can spin up your own server (often little more than a RaPi box, possibly more at scale), avoiding lock-in based on software alone.

But it obliges you to provide or make available those changes if the use will "propogate" the work.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by kazinator on Monday January 20, 2020 @05:06PM (#22102470)
If I spin my own server, why would I care what anyone else has done with their server, code-wise? Does everyone in the world who has publicly installed that server owe me a copy of their source code, even if what I run and use is strictly my own server built from the upstream code?

By the way, the AGPL3 definition of "propagate" looks exactly the same as that of the the regular GPL3. Operating software as a server doesn't fall under "propagate".

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by dredmorbius on Monday January 20, 2020 @06:24PM (#22102912)
If you're competing with a service, it means that you're not going to suffer disadvantage based on the coding / development capabilities of your competitor. What they produce is going to be something that's available to your own deployment.

For self-service, this means that you're not locked out of the development capabilities of the service you've left -- though that arguably creates a free-rider problem for that service.

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by simonh on Tuesday January 21, 2020 @05:51AM (#22105801)
You are not locked into a particular proprietary service provider. So with the Affero license in principle you get the following benefits:

* You know what code is providing your services.

* You have the option to run that code yourself.

* Other service providers can provide the same service using the same code, so you're not locked in.

Re:Toward Copyleft Equality for All by tuukkah on Monday January 20, 2020 @04:29PM (#22102231)
Isn't the point that you can modify and deploy a copy on your own infrastructure?