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Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by pjc50 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:42AM (#22063625)
No - and in any case there isn't anything they can do if they are targeted, they don't have active countermeasures, the airframe can't handle evasive maneuvers, and they have a huge heat/radar signature.

It's .. not a problem the civilian manufacturers should be attempting to solve.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by redis_mlc on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:53AM (#22063996)
> the airframe can't handle evasive maneuver

That's not exactly true for +ve g's:

"from -1 to +2.5 (or up to +3.8 depending on design takeoff weight)"

If you were at 10,000' and you saw a radar-guided SA-2, diving downwards toward it would likely make it miss.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by mzs on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:46PM (#22070343)
How does a pilot see something obscured by the nose and rest of the plane coming up?
Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by martin_a on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:45AM (#22063640)
Thanks for your answer!

> It's .. not a problem the civilian manufacturers should be attempting to solve.

No, absolutely not. I was just wondering if they had at least the slightest idea what was about to happen.

Kind of gruesome to pass away like this, if you think about it. On the other hand: You can just as surprisingly be killed by a speeding car. Really bad in any way.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by rvnx on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:37AM (#22064355)
I'm sure they had in mind the specific tensions and in their head that a missile can strike them.

About a similar situation (in Ukraine): "It was not possible to ascertain at which moment the occupants died"

"Victims Could Have Remained Conscious During Fall"

https://time.com/3028548/mh17-malaysia-airlines-victims-ukra...

It was likely horrible here too.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by SiempreViernes on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:08AM (#22064109)
In 2006 two air planes collided (almost) head-on over the Amazonas, by virtue of the impressive accuracy autopilots can maintain. Flying things move too fast for you to have much chance to notice anything after they've become close enough to see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol_Transportes_Aéreos_Flight_...

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by KuiN on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:35AM (#22064345)
William Langewiesche has an excellent article on Gol 1907: 'The Devil at 37,000ft'.

Goes into a bit more depth on your point. Our expectation is that increasing use of tech in planes should make us safer, but in this case it _increased_ the chance of a mid-air collision. Of course planes have TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) to stop this happening, but it's no magic bullet ... particularly when it's turned off.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/01/air_crash200901

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by kijin on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:10AM (#22063762)
Air Force One is based on a civilian airframe. Of course the Hollywood movie was full of exaggerations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the actual Air Force One was reinforced in some ways to afford a certain level of protection for its precious cargo.

How much could Boeing, for example, modify one of their civilian airframes to support active countermeasures and make it capable of withstanding more stressful maneuvers without altering the outside too much? Quite a lot, I would think.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by blantonl on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:54AM (#22064010)
Probably not much can be realistically done actually.

Airlines are hypersensitive to weight since that affects range and fuel costs. The action that American Airlines took to remove complementary magazines from their flights saved millions a year in fuel costs.

In Air Force One's case - they probably have some active countermeasures (flares) and some electronic countermeasures (jamming) built in, but that's about it. Probably useless against a foreign state's advanced SAM capabilities. Much of the extra weight capabilities are most likely taken up by communications equipment to provide the President and staff command authority. Minus some rudimentary capabilities for low-end SAMs, Air Force One is probably just as vulnerable to being shot down as your average cargo airliner.

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by avh02 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:52AM (#22063992)
air force one and some El Al planes were/are fitted with countermeasures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al#Onboard_missile_defense_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25

>All wiring is covered with heavy shielding for protection from a nuclear electromagnetic pulse in the event of a nuclear attack. The aircraft also has electronic countermeasures (ECMs) to jam enemy radar, flares to avoid heat-seeking missiles, and chaff to avoid radar-guided missiles

Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by rvnx on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:28AM (#22064276)
I think the best countermeasure in Israel is the heavy interrogation you get when leaving the airport
Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by jrockway on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:56AM (#22064506)
People on the ground with missile launchers don't go through airport security.
Re:How The New York Times Verified the Iran Missile-Strike F... by rjsw on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:13AM (#22064142)
The P-8 [1] is based on a civilian airframe too, doesn't look very different to a 737 from the outside.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon