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Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by blackrock on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:38AM (#22062392)
Extradite him back to Japan. And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape. When did these people think that they are above the law? They made a mockery of the criminal justice system. And they once again proved that those with money and power are above the law.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by jeffrallen on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:42AM (#22062413)
National sovereignty is still a thing. If Lebanon thinks that Japan's legal system is not respecting their citizen's human rights, they should not extradite. If Lebanon does nothing within it's own legal system, then you can criticize them if you want for giving rich people impunity.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by aflag on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:22AM (#22062596)
Most countries don't extraditate their own citizens regardless of the crime. I don't even know about a country that would extraditate a citizen in this case.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by philwelch on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:38AM (#22062682)
It's unusual but Mexico did extradite El Chapo to the US.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by swarnie_ on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:49AM (#22063370)
Still waiting on Anne Sacoolas, whenever you're ready America.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by vxNsr on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:54AM (#22062469)
A criminal justice system that wins 100% of the cases it prosecutes makes a mockery of the system. Same way a dictator who wins 100% of the vote.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by blackrock on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:02AM (#22062502)
Criminal prosecutors (District Attorneys) in the United States have a near 100% conviction rate. This is because they selectively choose the cases they want to prosecute.

By your logic, are you also saying the United States makes a mockery of the criminal justice system?

So if you get convicted of a crime in the US, then you’d better pray to God that it isn’t handled by the DA.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by gorgoiler on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:34AM (#22062660)
It’s common to read criticisms of the justice system in that regard.

If the DA is able to construe a set of charges carrying a maximum multi-year or even multi-decade custodial sentence, and when the option of not even being able to be considered for parole can be added as a condition of your sentence — no matter what kind of prison behavior you show, or how you respond as a prisoner to rehabilitation or reconciliation programs — then the plea bargaining process itself begins to seem a lot like an extrajudicial and unconstitutional trial of the kind one is surprised a moral society would endorse.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by fla on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:08AM (#22062532)
The big difference AFAIK is that in USA, most of the cases end up with a deal between parties. In Japan the notion of deal doesn't exist.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by jacobush on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:36AM (#22062672)
It could be that Japan is lenient and does not prosecute cases which are not cut and dry. I don't know.

Anyway I don't know how much you are helping the USA here in your argument. A deal in the US is often like:

"Look, kid. With this deal, you get 1 year in prison. If we choose to prosecute, you are looking at 30 years to life. Your call. Remember, you have a [kid|mother|girlfriend]."

Who would risk going up in court, even if you maybe didn't even do very much? It's basic economics. The risk is too great that jury is going to hate you, no matter what you did or didn't do. Better take the bargain and cut your losses.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by raverbashing on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:17AM (#22062865)
The plea bargain for criminal cases (especially for people with reduced access to defense attorneys) is certainly problematic.

Settlements, for civil cases, not so much, and I think it's an overall positive.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by _Codemonkeyism on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:19AM (#22062879)
Where the deal is, we don't put you to jail for 50+ years, you agree to be guilty and go for 10 years. With the prospect of ending your life in prision, everyone does a deal.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by tjpnz on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:54AM (#22063079)
The Japanese criminal justice system doesn't win 100% of the cases it prosecutes. It should also be said that only a relative few even get to that point.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by josu on Thursday January 16, 2020 @07:32AM (#22063881)
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by alexis_fr on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:05AM (#22062514)
I don’t believe the justice of France or USA is any better. Ghosn seems to be discovering how swift the justice is, like in any country.

USA has 95% convictions based on plea deals, so the investigation is only complete enough to convince the accused that he is isolated enough in his jail that he won’t be able to build a defense, but the accusation is never formally proved, it’s just the accused who agrees to admit crimes. Examples vary, for example pharmacists who are legally authorized to sell legal cannabis have been convicted because they couldn’t bring proof.

In France we have jihadists who get freed, rapists who get away with it because they are recently immigrated and « don’t have the western codes » (true quote from the judge), people who get French nationality after having assaulted a policeman; We also have people in jail for way lighter offenses, but who are public cases with lots of media pressure.

Although I’m all for a severe justice system, and process-based justice, I’m not convinced half of the convicts are there with a proven proof from the accusation ; rather, they couldn’t defend themselves.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by mytailorisrich on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:20AM (#22062582)
It's not swift in France (very slow, actually), and it's not swift either in Japan, apparently.

One issue Ghosn mentioned is that his trial(s) was being delayed possibly until next year and beyond with his Japanese lawyer telling him that the whole thing could last up to 5 years.

Now, remember that the Japanese judiciary initially wanted to keep him in jail until his trial(s) and that the conditions of his bail were practically 'house arrest' with very limited contacts with his family and the world.

If I were 65 years old (as he is) and risked potentially having to stay years in jail/house arrest without trial in a foreign country and then risked up to 10 years in jail after that in a country that has a 99.6% conviction rate I would do whatever I could to get the f# out of there (whether I was guilty or innocent).

He had the means to do it and he did it. On a human level I cannot blame him.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by ryanlol on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:00AM (#22062788)
> Although I’m all for a severe justice system

Do you have any evidence to support that this is actually a good idea?

Or is it just revenge porn you’re after?

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by crocal on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:56AM (#22062476)
Well, I am no big fan of Gohsn, but judging from the way the Japanese justice system treats suspects, this system deserves to be mocked, rolled in tar and covered with feathers. Ghosn is not asking to escape judgement, he is asking for a fair trial. It’s now pretty obvious no such thing exists today in Japan. Maybe he is guilty, but I find it hard to blame him for escaping, irrespective of his wealth.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by thonos on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:21AM (#22062890)
There was this AMA on reddit a couple months ago about someone writing about their experience in Japanese detention - https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/cdqx4n/i_spent_20_da...

Given how inhumane it is, yeah, I think I would have tried to escape too

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by lkramer on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:11AM (#22062544)
I would also love to be able to pick and choose where the trial for my crimes should be held...
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by pintxo on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:25AM (#22062607)
Everyone can, just commit the crime within your preferred jurisdiction. /s
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by oefrha on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:27AM (#22062618)
Nice excuse for escaping justice in any jurisdiction that ever existed.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by bureaucrat on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:26AM (#22062615)
The fact that the particular "criminal justice system" did not even allow him to contact the media sold me. He can't get a fair trial in Japan because their system is broken.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by jacobush on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:40AM (#22062692)
It's the same in Sweden. You can't have contact with media, family, other inmates, basically anyone except your attorney.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by Pinus on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:00AM (#22062785)
This does not apply automatically, but it is true that such restrictions are possible, and that there has been criticism that they are applied in too many cases and for too long times.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by jacobush on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:23AM (#22062904)
Yes, I should have added some qualifier. It's exactly as you say.
Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by ryanlol on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:55AM (#22062759)
> And arrest all that were accomplice to his escape.

The fuck, why? Not at all obvious that this is illegal, and even if that’s the case it’s not at all obvious that this would be sufficiently illegal to justify arrest (and presumably extradition, which generally requires dual criminality).

Would you expect friends helping bail jumpers to be treated like this elsewhere? That’s not usually (ever?) the case.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by droidno9 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:28AM (#22063259)
Harboring a fugitive, obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting [the escape], just to name a few obvious ones.

With respect to two US citizens mentioned in the article (and there may be more), they may be extradited should Japan makes the request. The US does have an extradition treaty with Japan and the crimes mentioned above are within the purview of the treaty.[1]

[1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/v...

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by FDSGSG on Thursday January 16, 2020 @05:59AM (#22063416)
>Harboring a fugitive

The federal Harboring statutes do not appear to cover skipping bail (until an arrest warrant is issued).

>obstruction of justice

Obstruction of justice is a much more complicated topic, but I don't see any statute that would clearly fit this activity.

>aiding and abetting [the escape]

Would require the escape itself to be a crime in both jurisdictions, punishable with deprivation of liberty of more than one year.

IANAL, but I'm curious and able to read. The justice manual on justice.gov is a helpful resource.

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by droidno9 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:38AM (#22063606)
Some specific statutes:

- 18 U.S. Code § 1073. Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testi­mony [1]

- 18 U.S. Code § 752. Instigating or assisting escape [2]

- 18 U.S. Code § 1071. Concealing person from arrest [3]

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/752 [3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1071

Re:How Carlos Ghosn Was Smuggled Out of Japan by FDSGSG on Thursday January 16, 2020 @08:14AM (#22064155)
I don't think any of these apply unless the person was in custody or there's a known warrant or process for their arrest.

Therefore it's not clear to me if skipping bail is covered by any of these laws (until after an arrest warrant is issued due to that bail violation).