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Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by duxup on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @04:36PM (#22058952)
I'm a noob web dev working in a small shop that sells a niche SaaS product.

We had a customer push us to support Edge.

The dev team (3 dudes) just looked at eachother and laid down the "No, Firefox or Chrome...".

It's just so much pressure to dance around the "this one does this, that one doesn't" and generally we rarely run into any Firefox and Chrome issues. Edge, just not worth it for a small team.

I'm glad we probabbly can direct them to the new Edge now (after some testing).

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by dan1234 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @05:07PM (#22059296)
What are you using that Edge doesn't support?

We treat Chrome/Safari/Edge/FF all as 1st class browsers and haven't had many problems (aside from Safari lacking U2F and exotic CSS props like motion-path).

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by chrismorgan on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @05:37PM (#22059584)
A few things I’ve been using without EdgeHTML support: #rgba and #rrggbbaa in CSS, <details>, Custom Elements v1. On my personal website, I have deliberately chosen to no longer polyfill these or change my process to avoid #rgba in the final CSS, so various background colours are missing, the light/dark theme switcher doesn’t collapse (it should start collapsed), and a terminal recording will be missing in an upcoming blog post.

mix-blend-mode is another thing that EdgeHTML doesn’t support that I was using for a bit, but I stopped using it because I kept finding critical bugs with it in Chromium, most notably https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=992398 which was impossible to work around, simply stopping rendering the page after 8192px!

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by ataylor32 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:07AM (#22061827)
A few issues I have run into with Edge:

1. The :focus-within CSS pseudo-class doesn't work

2. object-fit only works on images

3. These SVG loaders don't work: https://samherbert.net/svg-loaders/

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by simongray on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:33AM (#22062657)
Damn, lacking :focus-within is a big one. That pseudo-selector is very useful when creating custom widgets.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @06:36PM (#22060066)
Been tacitly supporting Edge myself, but drew a hard line at IE (even 11) for current projects. Without async functions, promises etc, it's just too much extra boilerplate, a separate build setup and a huge payload just to support IE11, let alone older.

I'll be glad if/when Edge (blink) is deployed with a windows update.. the sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by DaiPlusPlus on Thursday January 16, 2020 @12:20AM (#22061882)
> Been tacitly supporting Edge myself, but drew a hard line at IE (even 11) for current projects. Without async functions, promises etc, it's just too much extra boilerplate, a separate build setup and a huge payload just to support IE11, let alone older.

We've been using TypeScript for all scripts longer than ~20 lines for years - so we got async functions for free (it compiles async/await TypeScript functions to IE11-compatible ES5 just fine).

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by depressedpanda on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:26AM (#22062614)
Why force all your users to download transpiled ES5, just to accommodate IE11 dinosaurs?

Not to mention all the issues you'll have if you try to use CSS Flex or Grid.

Support IE11 only if you absolutely must, is my advice, and do that with differential serving: https://philipwalton.com/articles/deploying-es2015-code-in-p...

https://calendar.perfplanet.com/2018/doing-differential-serv...

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:53PM (#22069406)
Agreed, but I'd just assume avoid dual builds and targets at this point... a project I'm working on started with IE11 support and dual build targets, but broke in IE11 about 3 weeks in, so changed the "legacy" build mode to a page noting the requirement for a modern and secure browser.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:51PM (#22069381)
TypeScript does NOT shim async functions[1] for you, or give you fetch-api[2]? AFAIK, if you want that functionality, you still need babel and the fills/transforms to support async in browsers without it are freakishly huge payloads. That doesn't count dynamic imports and a number of other features that TypeScript doesn't support.

I'd rather not support a dead browser, that's been dead for years now, that has clear replacements and alternatives. Not to mention security concerns above and beyond development pain..

    [1] https://caniuse.com/#feat=async-functions
    [2] https://caniuse.com/#feat=fetch
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by DaiPlusPlus on Thursday January 16, 2020 @06:39PM (#22070290)
TypeScript does shim async functions, you just need to supply your own `Promise<T>` polyfill ( https://mariusschulz.com/blog/compiling-async-await-to-es3-e... ). `fetch` also works fine with a third-party polyfill. Combined, that's about 30KiB extra compared to pure ES6 (before GZip).
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Friday January 17, 2020 @10:58AM (#22075723)
Thank you for pointing this out... I just know I've come across quite a few features of EScurrent/next that weren't supported in typescript and found the experience a bit irritating to do both babel and ts (and webpack).
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by xp84 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @12:45AM (#22082591)
Just out of curiosity, why not use a conditional polyfill using nomodule rather than outright breaking on something like IE11? Because we use nomodule, the script tag will be ignored by modern browsers, while IE will fetch the polyfill. polyfill.io serves this request, and we have it include all the polyfills we require (for our use case, we just request the default plus es2015-16-17-18, plus fetch).

The beauty of the approach is that the big pollyfill payloads are only borne by the users who choose (or likely are forced by employers) to use those browser versions.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by darekkay on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @04:54PM (#22059172)
To be fair, Edge has a good feature support (check caniuse.com). It would be interesting to know what the exact issues your app has with the browser. Otherwise it sounds more like your devs like to use some vendor-specific hacks and blame Edge for it. I know there are some Flexbox things to consider, but nothing a small team can't handle.

IE11 is another story, though.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by ewgoforth on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @05:16PM (#22059382)
I'd also be curious to know what features that Edge doesn't support. I know it doesn't do everything Chrome does, but I haven't run into any scenarios that Edge didn't support in a long time.

It's a pet peeve of mine that apps don't support Edge/Trident, Vivaldi, etc. It's easier to write cross-browser code than ever, but it seems like we're in the process of reverting back to the bad old days when IE6 was the only browser people supported, but it's Chrome now instead of IE.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @06:39PM (#22060093)
IE6 was closed source and only ran on Windows... Chromium/Blink run cross platform, open source and already 2 forks in. There's some stark contrast, even if it's more of a mono-culture, it's nothing like the IE6 days, even if google does have more power/control than other stakeholders.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tomc1985 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:07AM (#22062066)
IE had a mac version, but it died due to lack of interest/support
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by kalleboo on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:16AM (#22062569)
The Mac version had a completely different, incompatible, renderer (which was actually better than the Windows one from a standards perspective) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_(layout_engine)
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by tracker1 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @04:54PM (#22069422)
IIRC, the mac version never got an IE6 release, it was 5.x...
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by xp84 on Saturday January 18, 2020 @12:50AM (#22082613)
It really is getting bad. I use Opera as my 'daily driver' for work, and I get warnings on sites at least weekly where the site will either complain like I'm using some dangerous outdated software, or just plain refuse to work, nevermind the fact that Opera actually uses regular old Blink. Present-day Opera is just a minor reskin of Chromium - and I think Vivaldi is Blink too, right?

People are literally doing User Agent Sniffing again, and even though these browsers carefully craft their UA string to pass naive checks, the sniffers are hacking around that and urging me to "Download Chrome" to use a website.

Notable Offenders: Google Hangouts, and banks. Not impressed, Google.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by emayljames on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:57AM (#22062227)
Has issue in not printing PDFs correctly. Namely changing text, swapping out fonts and other issues.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by emayljames on Thursday January 16, 2020 @01:56AM (#22062217)
Yeah, IE needs odd custom CSS designed for accessibility, to make up for the mountains of missing CSS spec in it. And forget it if you use flex.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by ken on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @05:35PM (#22059572)
Last time I was doing web dev (maybe 2 years ago), I worked primarily in Firefox and Safari. Chrome presented more issues for me than Edge ever did. I don't think I ever had anything work in Chrome, and fail in Edge.

I lived through the IE6 years, so I was never thrilled with any version of IE I had to support, but Edge was actually a good browser. Strange UI, solid engine.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by userbinator on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @08:34PM (#22060844)
Strange UI, solid engine

...and that's one of the reasons everyone hates Edge. I'm a long-time IE user and that stupid dumbed-down UI is absolutely repulsive. If they'd just put the Chromium engine in the normal IE UI I bet they'd get far more users naturally using it.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by onion2k on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:59AM (#22062485)
I'm glad we probabbly can direct them to the new Edge now (after some testing).

I would be surprised if they still want to be a customer.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by astura on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:38AM (#22064886)
>Edge, just not worth it for a small team.

I just can't get behind this lazy "small team" excuse; it's really unnecessary hubris.

I worked on a "small team" of 1 (just myself - I was the only dev) for several years on an enterprise webapp. The kind that does complicated stuff - not a simple CRUD app. [Sidenote: I would have killed for a team of three!!] Yet I supported Edge since the day it came out and never dropped support of IE. In fact, I even supported old versions of IE (7 and up) until the day Microsoft EOLed older version of IE (that was January 12th, 2016, FWIW). It honestly isn't very hard these days. Annoying sometimes, yes, but not difficult.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by duxup on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:50AM (#22064989)
I don't want to get into technical details except to say some of what we support are/is some legacy stuff customer's use ... that we did not create. It's weird, and faced with the choice of fixing some old products with a lot of unknowns ... and moving customers to something more modern that is more compatible with Edge... we chose the latter.

I suspect the agility of any team is heavily influenced by not just numbers, but tech debt, and other choices.

All future work we do is compatible with Edge, it's not like NOTHING works with Edge, but to say "We support Edge"... customers expect that to mean everything.

Fortunately I don't think we'll have to have that conversation anymore.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by astura on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:55AM (#22065030)
Yeah, I worked around technical debt and legacy support too, it goes with the field.

Still not an excuse to alienate your customers who want to use a browser that comes with their OS. Enterprise customers never want to go through the hassle of installing external software company wide just to use your services.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by duxup on Thursday January 16, 2020 @09:58AM (#22065052)
This is a pretty niche area, "enterprise" would be generous to call these customers that even if it technically fits. It's a surprisingly small ask to have them install a browser.

Lots of customers still on Windows 7... that's bad, but we can't change that.

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by steve1977 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:13AM (#22062286)
> We had a customer push us to support Edge.

Why though?

Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by astura on Thursday January 16, 2020 @10:16AM (#22065245)
Many company's IT departments don't find it worth downloading, supporting, and updating external applications just to access the web when the OS provides that functionality out of the box. You could argue that's "wrong," but that doesn't change reality. I even had a government customer remove IE, clicking on the IE icon launched Edge.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by moooo99 on Thursday January 16, 2020 @03:02AM (#22062504)
Because in many large companies, it's IE or Edge. If the company has upgraded to Win10, you're probably required to support Edge.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by adventist on Wednesday January 15, 2020 @05:34PM (#22059559)
Yeah it would be interesting to hear of the feature that Edge could not support.
Re:The new Microsoft Edge is out of preview by emayljames on Thursday January 16, 2020 @02:01AM (#22062239)
I'm having to fix an issue where a user's workstation uses edge to print PDFs. It is bad at it, it swaps out embedded fonts (random ones) and changes some text. A known issue.