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Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by zzzeek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @10:51AM (#2193259)
The White House spent the whole first two years of political capital on a massive new health reform program, losing significant popularity and the House as a result. They've been roundly criticized for focusing too much on health care and not anything else.

So I don't see how you can make the statement "the government doesn't understand that affordable health care is the main priority for startups" - health care was clearly their highest priority to an unprecedented degree, whether or not you agree on the approach they took.

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:22AM (#2193409)
What's the point of this comment? Since the first two years of Obama's administration, has health insurance become less of an issue for startups? Is health insurance not on the table right now as an issue in the House? What does it matter how much "political capital" was spent?
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by zzzeek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @03:23PM (#2194654)
The point is the assertion that the government "doesn't understand the challenges facing startups", based on the example that health care should be higher priority than something else, is incorrect, if taken to mean that the "government doesn't understand that access to affordable health care is a key challenge facing startups". Maybe that's not what it means but it sure seems that way.

The government placed access to affordable health care at the top of its priority list from day one of the administration. The notion that a $75 a month plan ten years ago might now be $1000 a month is specifically targeted as a primary issue. Again, you can say the legislation is awful and won't work at all (I've no idea myself and I'm in the "something is better than nothing" camp), but they certainly understand the problem.

Edit: And I APOLOGIZE for quoting a paraphrase, I am no longer able to edit the comment else I would remove the quotes and fully explain what appears to be what you are saying. I sincerely hope that I am correctly understanding your assertion, which again appears to say, "the government doesn't understand that health care is a huge problem for startups", and if I am not, then I withdraw my comment fully.

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by bhousel on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @04:13PM (#2194896)
Don't worry about the paraphrase, my original comment was probably too ambiguous.

Yes, I do believe that the government probably understands that health care is a huge problem for startups. What I don't believe (and this is the point of the Steve Blank blog post) is that the government can effectively prioritize what the biggest problems for startups are.

Now, lets talk about Startup America specifically. Going off the information available online ( e.g. http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/startup-america ), this program is more focused on things like access to capital, mentorship and education, partnerships with big business, federally funded grants and research.

I think these are all really great things to work on, but health care, #1 on my list, is not even mentioned on their list at all. Again, I believe they know it's a huge issue, but they may be shying away from it now because "we did that already and it's done" or "we'll lose elections in 2012 if we keep talking about it".

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by zzzeek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @04:26PM (#2194980)
Now that the bill passed I think all they can do is defend the thing from getting overturned. There's probably nothing else they're willing to take on until the bill goes into effect and makes it through the supreme court (which it very likely won't).
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:24AM (#2193413)
Looks like partisan raging. It's not like the administration or congress only did one thing. The House passed over 400 bills (most didn't make it to the Senate), and the Senate still got quite a few things done.
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:25AM (#2193415)
"But the President tried his best" is not a valid answer to "health care may be a bigger issue than access to capital".
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:29AM (#2193436)
The thing in the first set of quotes is not something I said.
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:33AM (#2193456)
Nope, not directly.
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:35AM (#2193471)
Then be direct and say what you mean since I don't know what you're trying to say.
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:42AM (#2193503)
Is health care not a problem for startups? If it in fact is, then answer this question: what does it matter how many other things the administration got done? How does that make it less of a problem?
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:44AM (#2193510)
I guess it depends on what you thought of the health care reform bill. In my mind it's already taken care of, and things will improve as the provisions take effect.

I would prefer it all come in to effect immediately, but I understand there are business and regulatory systems that need to be developed in advance of implementation.

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:44AM (#2193517)
You didn't answer my question. Would you, please?
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:46AM (#2193530)
We must be talking about different things. I'm not involved or interested in that line of discussion. The only important part of the post that sparked this was "Looks like partisan raging."
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by asolove on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @12:52PM (#2193910)
I was just really sad the see the replies died off here since I wanted to see how the formatting would look as we moved further over.
Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by mkr-hn on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @12:57PM (#2193930)
Here's a nice argument tree to play with: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1686176

Scroll quickly and you can see context bouncing around in waves.

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by bhousel on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:42AM (#2193502)
So I don't see how you can make the statement "the government doesn't understand that affordable health care is the main priority for startups"

Haha, I didn't make that statement.. But you put quotes around it anyway? I was just speaking about my own situation and why I agree that Startup America is DOA.

Edit: Ok, forget about the quotes -- they're irrelevant. I do feel that you are misparaphrasing me, but I don't care. If you want to know what I really believe:

* Of course the current government has made health care reform a priority for everyone, not just startups. Nobody would say otherwise.

* I agree with the goals of the recent health care reform law. I think health insurance reform would have been a better way to approach the problem.

* It's a shame that the democrats lost the PR battle and as a result half the country wants the law repealed. Overall I think the law could be a good thing.

* I agree with the goals of Startup America, to use government influence to remove barriers to entrepreneurship

* Affordable health care for small business owners is a huge barrier. You can't hire most people unless you can afford to pay for their health care or a group plan.

* I predict that this won't be addressed at all by Startup America, because health care reform has become such a heated issue. People are losing elections because of it.

* By addressed I mean, where is it mentioned on their website? What experts do they have advising them? What insurers are they partnering with to provide breaks for small business owners?

I do welcome discussion about this stuff, but let's try not to misrepresent each other..

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by tptacek on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @11:56AM (#2193577)
What is it with Hacker News and quotation marks? I got called out for doing it a couple years ago by some famous guy on the site, and as a result, being careful with punctuation is the one thing I do differently when writing here (I slipped upthread, as you can see).

But I don't get it. Your initial comment (which I totally agree with) is right there. It is plainly obvious what you wrote and plainly obvious that the response is a paraphrase. You clearly disagree with that paraphrase, but that to me seems like an essential issue in the discussion, not a pointless tangent: "do I correctly understand you to be saying...", "no!", "oh, then...".

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by bhousel on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @01:38PM (#2194164)
Yeah, I agree that this place feels too formal at times, and I hate feeling like I have to be a master of rhetoric just to comment here.

In fact just yesterday I got sucked into another thread that went the same way. I've come to the conclusion that that some people take counter points and play Devil's Advocate just because the enjoy argument and debate. Personally it's not my thing. I'd rather dash off a quick comment and get back to work.

This thread has gone crazy, hasn't it?

Re:Startup America -- Dead on Arrival by rbarooah on Tuesday February 08, 2011 @04:14PM (#2194902)
Sometimes it's because you are encountering someone with a cognitive style that is oriented towards precision of expression. This is an admirable trait that can expose hidden assumptions and lead to valuable insights.

Unfortunately, attacking the form rather than the content of a position can also be an effective tactic for undermining an opposing view without having to risk justifying oneself. It consumes energy without contributing anything constructive. If there's a genuine ambiguity and a desire to work together to learn something, there are usually ways to clarify your opponent's position that help both people reach understanding.