News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by throwno on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @08:51PM (#21926107)
No Piketty? Come on now. You don't have to agree with it, but it was a big part of the "conversation" about inequality in the 2010s.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by internet_user on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @10:29PM (#21926466)
Strange, especially for The Guardian.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by kmlx on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @03:28AM (#21927220)
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by oxymoran on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:51AM (#21927834)
And here I thought the normal people reference was to “The War on Normal People” by Andrew Yang which,10 years from now will look like a glaring omission.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:07AM (#21927870)
I do have quite a lot of sympathy for Andrew Yang, and I don't doubt the book is a well-crafted long essay of his central thesis of economic disruption.

But if it looks like a glaring omission ten years from now, it almost by definition is the defining book of that decade, not the last one.

It would not even surprise me if Yang, if asked, would name some work that came before his book to be more deserving of distinction. Because while he is a very effective promoter of UBI and why it's needed, it isn't exactly his idea.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @09:21PM (#21926234)
It's The Guardian, so more of a list that defines their rather politically loaded view of the decade.

Obviously that sort of bias is not unique to The Guardian, but I'd prefer a list that genuinely sheds light on the times we are in.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:25AM (#21927771)
Isn't this the institutional version of an ad hominem?

Every article from the Guardian, the NYT, or really any other large publisher gets this comment, and it's often voted to the top.

It adds nothing. Everyone knows half of the population doesn't trust any newspaper to get the date on the front page right.

So the Guardian thinks #metoo and the financial crisis were among the topics of salience on the last year? I would actually bet both Bernie Sanders and Rupert Murdoch would agree the financial crisis mattered. And even Harvey Weinstein would agree #metoo had some sort of impact.

Because we might no longer have a shared truth, but there's still quite a lot of agreement on what to disagree about,

There is no "bias-free" book that shaped the decade. Unless you go by print run, and it's the leaflet that comes with every new iPhone. Or go by sales figures, in which case it's 50 Shades of Gray. Which is obviously wrong, but kind of fitting. After all, this seems to be the decade were anything but black and white disappeared.

[dead]
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:13AM (#21927876)
Love them or loathe them they are free from the usual bias of the major newspapers. They are not owned by an individual of extreme wealth setting the agenda, sometimes on day to day issues and prospective governing party e.g, Murdoch doing a deal with Blair. They're owned by a trust which, since before the war, aims to keep the paper's liberal position, without party affiliation.

I don't think there's another UK paper without a sugar daddy, and suffering in reporting as a consequence.

[dead]
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:43AM (#21927957)
It's not irrelevant as it separates them from day to day individual influence. The trust doesn't even pay dividends, so it's not beholden to investors. Its aim, I assume, is to keep the papers going indefinitely, representing a similar worldview as they always did.

That's not the same as not having a position -- everyone has a position. It's just made rather more overt than the hidden whims of an owner. I would love for a UK paper of the right, or The Times, once a great independent and mostly apolitical source, to be funded on a similar basis. Our media would be much the better for it.

"legalistic wrangling of irreality"

I can decode no meaning from this.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @09:15AM (#21928088)
Comments suggesting The Guardian is free of bias is why reminders are needed here that it is profoundly so.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @09:41AM (#21928194)
This is hilarious. Does no one understand the difference between a position, a worldview and bias any more?

Bias is an unfair or dishonest prejudice, or attempt to distort one way or another. That someone happens not to be agreeing with me, or you, is not bias. Out of interest, among the UK sources, who do you consider unbiased?

The FT has a financial worldview whilst aiming to be free of bias. The Guardian has a left of centre liberal worldview. The Telegraph used to have an honest worldview of the Conservative right. The Times used to be an independent source, with a small c conservative worldview of the establishment, rather than party or left / right. In 1980 I would probably view all of these as unbiased honest reportage, outside opinion columns, whilst they all had a very clear and obvious perspective on the world.

The Guardian pretty much represents what they did 40 years ago. The Telegraph transformed themselves to something unrecognisable 15 years ago when the Barclay brothers bought them and they went from honest right of centre paper to Sunday Sport with multi syllable words, almost overnight. The fall of The Times under Murdoch has been as dramatic, just a little slower.

p.s. Saying they "are free from the usual bias of the major newspapers" is not claiming them perfect, "free of bias" or immune to poor reporting. I know of no source that manages that perfectly.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @02:48PM (#21930099)
Saying they are free of bias (or "free from the usual bias", like that's a big difference) is absurd, and attempting to backpedal by qualifying that claim and redefining the meaning of the word is no more useful.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @03:46PM (#21930505)
Check Oxford Dictionary or Websters. No redefinition.

I'm done here.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @08:15AM (#21927880)
"Commercial and political bias" in that quote refers to external actors (parties, companies, etc) having undue influence on their reporting, by for example party ownership (surprisingly common in some countries) or large advertising contracts tilted to some side of an issue.

It is impossible for anything written in an article to be bias in the sense of the word clearly intended. What you are labelling bias could possibly be the outcome of bias. It could be evidence of bias. But since you bring no new argument, your logic is just circular: "this is biased because it's from the Guardian. And the Guardian is clearly biased, becaue they wrote this."

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @09:26AM (#21928134)
Your first three paragraphs are rendered extremely questionable by the bizarre comments in the replies claiming The Guardian isn't biased.

That's why reminders of its very skewed perspective are needed.

The effects of the financial crisis (austerity) or the complete lack of accountability in the UK don't seem to be represented in the list as I pointed out - despite being of profound importance, instead The Big Short (excellent, but describing the venality of the previous decade) is.

Apart from that, I acknowledged the difficulty in finding a bias free source, but I don't think there are as many places in the supposedly "serious" press that the tone leaps out so regularly.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by Gatsky on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:11AM (#21926754)
Perhaps not an entirely fair comment... Is 'Gone Girl' a politically loaded choice?
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:45AM (#21927680)
The list as a whole reflects their curious priorities in a definition of the decade.

As for Gone Girl itself, I'm struggling to see it's importance.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by EliRivers on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:13AM (#21927744)
After that novel's success, there was a noticeable upsurge in novels that shared a number of features and styles and themes. I suspect that it was something of a Pulp Fiction effect; reading it again now makes it seem almost derivative, much as Pulp Fiction now looks like a homage to itself.

Granted, this is of importance to the publishing industry and the novel reading public rather than, say, the economy or politics.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by ralfd on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:29AM (#21927782)
Whatever the influence of “Gone Girl” on the decade is, it certainly can’t be bigger than “50 shades of Grey” from 2011/2012.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by shantly on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @12:31PM (#21929130)
There were like 100 major-publisher books that clearly modeled their title, if nothing else, on Gone Girl in the years after it came out. Didn't see that with 50 Shades. Both got a movie. Gone Girl seemed to have wider and more lasting cultural impact outside its immediate readership, as more than a joke or rapidly-fading reference.

For the record I haven't read either nor seen their movies, but I see the influence of Gone Girl around way more than I see 50 Shades.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by EliRivers on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:43AM (#21927815)
That's interesting; I genuinely haven't noticed that impact. I don't read much bondage-light (or whatever genre 50 Shades was). Was there a sea change in that section of the industry? The book itself was, from what reviews I read, pretty badly written (although this review alone made it worth it! - https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215 ), so I guess the impact can only be mainstreaming bondage-light; is there a new thriving sector of the industry providing that to people?
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by austhrow743 on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @09:24AM (#21928121)
I don't know what it's effect on books is but it generated a lot of interest in bdsm and normalised it some IRL. I'm too young to speak for the before times from personal experience, but in the non-fiction bdsm books I've read they've talked about finding partners or opening up about it to be scary and risky. Whereas I'm just finding normal girls through normal methods (tinder) and "I'm in to bdsm" or "I'm a dom" has been met with either enthusiasm and interest because they're in to it themselves, or simply because they're open to giving it a go and don't have anything against it. Much like if I'd said I'm really in to cowgirl or some other mundane thing like a preferred position. Not at all the experience I've read about.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by pottertheotter on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:41AM (#21926959)
Honest question, what do you mean by this? In your opinion, what is The Guardian’s bias / “politically loaded view of the decade”?
[dead]
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:32AM (#21927789)
Setting aside the fact that you're listing event/issues, and not books: In what universe can anyone believe a single Olympics should rank anywhere near the term "defining a decade"?

There's winter and summer, so every decade sees five and your top-10 is half full. Personally, I think the Soccer World is at least as important, and that, considering their singular relevance for the fate of the world, some tournaments surely see two books written about them, the list is full. So maybe that "book" about some regional independence in a has-been empire, which isn't even independent, just didn't make the cut.

By the way: half a million people died in Syria this decade.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @09:39AM (#21928178)
In the UK the Olympics being home based were a once in a century event, and was a massive cultural moment.

Agreed football is generally more important there and if a home team ever win the world cup again, it will be of decade defining importance.

I'd agree Syria/ISIS etc is appalling and is notable by it's omission from The Guardian list, there have been plenty of books written about it, event/issue or no.

As for your jab at the UK's irrelevance now, that's a significant factor in the discussion about its identity, which you would think a British publication would have acknowledged.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:01AM (#21927711)
Have there been any canonical or defining books on these topics? Most of them are still playing out so a definitive book would be a huge surprise, and in most cases downright impossible.

Austerity is a policy choice, so any exploration will be deeply and inherently political. Economically, there have been wider views of the current cargo cults in economics, such as Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century, or Keen's Debunking Economics. I'm a little surprised to see mention of neither.

Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by 9nGQluzmnq3M on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @07:51AM (#21927835)
Agreed, Piketty was a very surprising omission (particularly given the lambasting here about the Guardian's left-wing bias). Agree with it or not, it certainly had a much larger impact on real-world policy making than any of the literary award winners listed.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by maroonblazer on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @09:26PM (#21926252)
Have you found a better list?
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by kmlx on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @03:27AM (#21927219)
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:50AM (#21927687)
I haven't looked.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by smnrchrds on Tuesday December 31, 2019 @09:27PM (#21926258)
Monoculture days are behind us and have been for the past decade, so that is going to be a very very long list.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by mellosouls on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @06:48AM (#21927684)
I disagree somewhat - even within a society with a mix of cultures, there we be both tendencies to shared experience, and particularly notable events and themes within that.
Re:From the Big Short to Normal People: Books That Defined t... by hardlianotion on Wednesday January 01, 2020 @01:49AM (#21926978)
It is a particularly narrow and somewhat shallow list, even for the guardian.