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Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by arez on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:37PM (#21908682)
One aspect nobody mentioned so far is, why do I have to focus so much on my dreams and "work on the next rocket to mars"? Why isn't it okay anymore to just do my job, have friends and watch movies? Why does everyone has to be an entrepreneur and do a successful side-project? Why can't I just have a hobby that doesn't pay off at all, like playing an instrument alone in my room, without any pursue to ever play a concert?
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:58PM (#21908841)
Selection bias. Nobody says you have to be like that. Just ignore the article and move on.

For me, it resonates, because the perspective of "doing my job, having friends and watching movies" sounds depressingly empty to me. I want to work on the next rocket to Mars (yes, I really do want to work on space rockets - because I care about space rockets).

I don't buy into the pressure you're seeing either. If your heart doesn't drive you to strive for meaning in your own work, then you won't be happy chasing it because social pressure tells you to. Not everyone ticks this way, and this is fine.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by arez on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:14PM (#21908938)
it's not just this article. I feel the pressure in my every day life. I already have a job that fulfills me and where I give 100%, does that mean I will be the next CTO, no probably not, so I can't even claim to push my career that much.

It's just that you read online about all these people that do open-source stuff, create their own website/business, build tools, do research etc. that you feel left out and the big pressure to do something meaningful. In addition nowadays you have to do something meaningful for the world, but it's hard to impress the world or the community, because in your community (like the hacker-news, reddit, indie hacker) there are now thousands or millions of people, you have to do something very substantial to actual get noticed.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by hoorayimhelping on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:34PM (#21909068)
>I already have a job that fulfills me and where I give 100%, does that mean I will be the next CTO, no probably not, so I can't even claim to push my career that much.

What more do you want? Think of how many people there are in the world who want that. Who just wish they didn't dread waking up every morning to go to work. I love my job and I'm completely fulfilled with it. It's all how you look at it - we've made it as far as I'm concerned, anything else is icing on the cake.

Really, the question you might want to ask yourself is: do you even want to be a CTO? I don't, it sounds like a set of skills and activities I don't really want to work on. I'd rather be a good engineer who helps other people grow in their career, who also gets to fish and surf in the morning and play video games in the evening.

Whenever I feel the way you're feeling, I think back to this quote by Kurt Vonnegut about Joseph Heller:

True story, Word of Honor:

Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead, and I were at a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island.

I said, "Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel 'Catch-22' has earned in its entire history?"

And Joe said, "I've got something he can never have."

And I said, "What on earth could that be, Joe?"

And Joe said, "The knowledge that I've got enough."

Not bad! Rest in peace!

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by bobthepanda on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:35PM (#21909078)
The pressure only matters if you feel like you want to "impress the world", whatever that means. The same way that the whole influencer rat race only really matters if you want to be an influencer. And if you do want to do those things, the question is "why?"

People don't write about ordinary lives normally because they don't get clicks and they don't grab attention. But if you're not seeking attention why does it matter?

It's partially why I enjoy the Great British Baking Show; all the bakers are otherwise perfectly ordinary people living ordinary lives, and they just bake as their hobby and the competition is relatively cheerful. Compare that to most American reality shows where all the people do is live and breathe being a master chef literally every second of their lives and everything is extremely stressful.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by james_s_tayler on Monday December 30, 2019 @02:34AM (#21911510)
Think of them like the 1% of the tech community. Yes, it can be done. No it's likely you it will be you. And that's fine. Though it can feel like "how the hell are these insanely productive people able to do all this stuff when I can barely even brush my teeth twice a day?".

Don't sweat it. Just like there are billionaires, there are also these mystical productivity billionaires. It's a cool thing to behold but it's very much not the norm.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by grawprog on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:08PM (#21909607)
>it's not just this article. I feel the pressure in my every day life.

Why? It's your life. You're the only one living it. Live it how you want. It doesn't matter what other people do. If you're happy and fulfilled doing the things you do, that's awesome. Honestly, that's really the best most people can and should strive for in their lives. Some people just aren't contented or fulfilled doing those things, that's fine too.

Everyone lives their own life, it's cool to see what other people do and be inspired by it, but no one's really forcing you if you really don't want to. But if you feel pressure, maybe you're not as fulfilled as you think?

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by solveit on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:58PM (#21909557)
You feel left out because you are rightly left out. You're not interested in what they're doing, and so they're not interested in you. I don't see the problem here. Why are you asking to get noticed?
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by friedman23 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:44PM (#21909468)
What are you asking for? Do you want people to appreciate you for coasting?
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by freepor on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:59PM (#21909233)
For me everything changed within 15 minutes of becoming a father. I used to want to change the world. Startups promotions etc. My son showed me a point on the line that was so far out that when I zoomed out, I couldn’t see the career stuff as anything other than a point on the origin. Now the only thing that gives me meaning is my children.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by cbsks on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:33PM (#21909747)
I’m the same way. I used to have grand career ambitions, but now I have a young daughter who has become my sole focus. I have a stable job which pays me enough to comfortably support my family, has a healthy my work/life balance, and gives me interesting projects to work on. That’s all that I need from my career at this point in my life.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:06PM (#21909269)
For me it didn't. I'm a father of a 6 months old daughter, and so far parenthood didn't manage to take over all my dreams and ambitions entirely.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:10PM (#21909293)
Likewise. Only made me more driven to make sure that I make enough money to take care of my family if the worst should come to pass.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:24PM (#21909369)
That's something else still. But yes, I've become more driven and more focused on ensuring financial safety for my family as well, in addition to not losing much of my interests so far.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by cpach on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:13PM (#21909307)
That could change the coming years. I’m not saying it will. But it could.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:38PM (#21909442)
I hope it won't.

I mean, this was probably my biggest fear about parenthood. Observing other parents, I've noticed that a lot of them lost everything that made them interesting. The kids are the only things they care about now. I don't see this as a good thing - not for parents, and not for the children. If a parent's entire self gets consumed by child-rearing, what example do they set for their children? That the point of their adult life is to have a (arbitrary, but hopefully well-paying) job in order to support their own children, perpetuating the cycle of doing nothing but breeding and dying? Isn't that meaningless and boring? To me, it is. And I'd hazard a guess that this is where midlife crisis comes from - when one's children are self-sufficient and the role of a parent is over, one realizes they have a 20 years old hole in their life, into which everything they were disappeared.

(This is my perspective as of right now. But the funny thing with perspectives is that they depend on where you stand - so who knows, maybe I'm wrong now and three years from now I'll be arguing the exact opposite? I don't expect to, but I can't rule it out.)

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by qznc on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:50PM (#21909504)
I'm 8 years in and I still have other ambitions. My guess is your hope has a good chance. :)
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:53PM (#21909521)
Thank you for the reassurance!
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Monday December 30, 2019 @03:46AM (#21911810)
It (probably) won't. My kids are years older than yours and I have only increased my workload, transitioning from an FTE at a software shop to running a small business (not out of my house).
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Monday December 30, 2019 @07:15AM (#21912799)
> (not out of my house)

That's an important point, isn't it?

Home office is a wonderful thing, but now that I'm a dad, I find myself wishing for an actual, external office. Not because I don't like my own home, but because catching even a tiniest fragment of my daughter's cry next door is incredibly, incredibly distracting - even though my wife is taking care of her perfectly, I have to fight myself to not just get out of the study and render assistance.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Monday December 30, 2019 @06:07PM (#21917518)
No question. I have a home office as well but I rarely work out of it unless it's very late or very early.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by edejong on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:08PM (#21908899)
Thanks, your answer resonates with me. To add to it, a life goal doesn't need to be exorbital (pun intended). Just know what you are working towards, and take pride in the steps towards your end goal.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by aylmao on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:34PM (#21909071)
This used to be me. At some point down the line I discovered I had "progress" wrong all along.

Just make sure to not let your passion drive you too far from loved ones. (:

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by marapuru on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:06PM (#21909274)
Could you share the different notions you had of "progress", then and now?
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by cambalache on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:45PM (#21909476)
How old are you
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by save_ferris on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:57PM (#21908833)
Because our society has an unhealthy obsession with wealth and status, and we’ve convinced ourselves that the only way to be happy in life is to amass both.

The irony is that some of the wealthiest people I’ve met seem the least happy and settled. It’s so strange.

The concept of having “enough” is fundamentally incompatible with the hyper-growth startup, social-media driven society that we’re creating. Because having enough means that you’re giving up on the rat race, at least to a degree.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:11PM (#21909298)
>> Because our society has an unhealthy obsession with wealth and status

This unhealthy obsession was in large part what drove the United States to what it eventually became in 2019 over just a few hundred years. This is probably an unpopular sentiment, but what makes us bad is often what makes us good. It is not like this obsession has no upside.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by worldsayshi on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:46PM (#21909487)
Yes. This. I mean, I very much hate/love this entrepreneurial cultural dogma. I simultaneously think it might be one of the few ways that an individual can make a significant impact on society (still with a very small probability) and at the same time I feel it's also the root of our big societal problems. Then again, the problems with endless growth that doesn't control for bad side effects might run deeper than entrepreneurial capitalism. Can't make up my mind about this.

It makes society run so much faster. But can't guarantee that it runs in the right direction. And so many signs say it's not.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by cambalache on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:50PM (#21909499)
90% of the things that make America great(heh), have nothing to do with the obsession with wealth and status,this is just a story some sectors (WallStreet, Hollywood, Silicon Valley and Washington politicians) like to tell themselves.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by arez on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:20PM (#21908979)
thanks, yes, that's kinda how I feel. Your comment somehow made me feel better, at least I know I'm in a rat race and that takes pressure off of me. Even when I'm staying in, it's better to have the view from the outside once in a while to get grounded and make sure one does not go mad
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by wiz21c on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:06PM (#21908894)
At my age, for me,

>>> giving up on the rat race

means I end up in a tough position. Either I leave the race, knowing that I'll have hard time to finance another race (kids, etc.); either I stay in, but then it means doing things I don't like.

middle class man's dilemma.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by save_ferris on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:27PM (#21909019)
I completely agree. Instead of pointing out and criticizing the leaders of our society for their role in widening wealth inequality, we’ve happily created this fiction where we can all hop on the gravy train and become millionaires too.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:12PM (#21909302)
This is not much of a fiction for a significant percentage of people reading Hacker News.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by save_ferris on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:51PM (#21909509)
So what’s your point? That may be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that the median household income in 2018 was 32k.[0]

There’s not a single county in the US where a minimum wage income covers the cost of a two-bedroom apartment.[1]

Economically, we’re entering a new gilded age where legislative decisions increasingly favor the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

0: https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2018

1: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2019-06-20/...

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by orangecat on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:09PM (#21909623)
the median household income in 2018 was 32k.

Individual, not household. And that appears to cover all "wage earners", including cases like college students working part time. Median household income is $63k according to https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/09/us-median-hou...

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Monday December 30, 2019 @03:44AM (#21911799)
>> There’s not a single county in the US where a minimum wage income covers the cost of a two-bedroom apartment.[1]

This is only true if you define paying for said apartment using the 30% of your income rule of thumb, which on top of a two bedroom apartment on minimum wage for a single earner is REALLY stretching reality. Federal minimum wage covers it if you increase 30% upwards easily in a lot of counties.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by huntie on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:13PM (#21909638)
>not a single county...

I'm going to call bullshit on that. Federal minimum wage is over $1000 per month at full time and I've seen 2br in my county for $550+utilities. I don't disagree with your general point but that report did a piss-poor job. I suspect they only looked in urban areas.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by asdfasgasdgasdg on Sunday December 29, 2019 @04:53PM (#21908803)
The answer of course is that it's fine for you to do that. Just don't expect plaudits for your lifestyle. People are mostly inspired by the great, not the typical. If your lifestyle makes you happy, great, but external validation is one thing it's not likely to earn.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by icelancer on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:14PM (#21909311)
Right. There is nothing wrong with having a simple life that runs counter to all the pressure one feels from the media (disclaimer: I don't feel that pressure at all; I feel the opposite, that we don't have enough driven people in society). But there's no reason there are going to be advertisements and awards handed out to the most balanced life liver somewhere in an affordable city in America.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by mrfusion on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:01PM (#21909242)
Just try to better yourself or better humanity. Star Trek taught me that.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by friedman23 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:42PM (#21909458)
It's fine to do that. But notice how all the things you want to do are consumption and not creation. Somebody needs to create those things you want to consume and considering how that is all you really want to do it should be easy to understand why society values those things so highly and pushes people to do them.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by rglover on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:53PM (#21909520)
You can, and please do—be happy. We need more happy people in the world. I've found that the people who push others or suggest others do what they're doing are insecure about their own pursuits (and I say that as someone who _does_ spend most of their time aggressively pursuing their own ideas).
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by elevenoh on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:59PM (#21909566)
>I've found that the people who push others or suggest others do what they're doing are insecure about their own pursuits

Alternatively, might they simply value to enter world (through themselves & others)?

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by hateful on Sunday December 29, 2019 @05:21PM (#21908990)
I think the point of the article was more that you didn't get to to do what you wanted to do, regardless of what that thing is. If you wanted to watch TV because you enjoy it, fine (the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time). But if you get caught up in things that you didn't want to do (responding to notifications every n amount of minutes) then you didn't do what you wanted to do and YOUR time was wasted. Unless of course you enjoy responding to those messages, but then you ARE doing what you wanted to do and it negates the whole thing!
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by rs23296008n1 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:30PM (#21909732)
You mean you don't work in fast-food service biding your time while secretly doing cancer research, battery research and inventing a new poodle? What do you do, sleep, play sport, and have real relationships? Scandalous!

Personally I think a lot of the overachiever hype/nonsense is designed to just remind people how little they are. Its not to build them up. Its a different but same version of something used to sell products like cosmetics: make people feel insecure then sell them something.

(Now someone will argue I'm somehow against doing your best. Nice try)

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by adventskalender on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:15PM (#21909650)
Maybe part of the problem is that jobs are not forever anymore. So it is a good idea to hedge one's bets and have side projects.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by tomrod on Monday December 30, 2019 @07:37PM (#21918034)
I see nothing wrong with this. 100% nothing amiss.

For me, I was part of early-career layoffs during a recession. I push myself because I was put in a hard situation, and I want control over my career.

I have that now, and I still push (though not as hard) to maintain it. It keeps my anxiety over providing for my responsibilities in check. I want to be independent.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by AriaMinaei on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:15PM (#21909320)
I hope I don't come off harsh, as that is not my intention.

> Why isn't it okay anymore to just do my job, have friends and watch movies?

The reason you get to "just do your job, have friends, and watch movies," is because of the advances in science/technology/government/economics/art/etc that gave you and your ancestors enough surplus in productivity so you can afford spending some of your time watching movies. Those leaps would not have been possible if the persons working on them shared your attitude.

So much suffering has been avoided by people who sacrificed their comfort discovering vaccines, inventing engines, or rallying people behind a cause. It's more than likely that you and I would not even be alive today without those sacrifices.

I don't know about you, but I feel I owe my life and my privileges to people who didn't "just do their job." And it inspires me to pay it forward.

Now don't get me wrong, maybe it is okay to "just do your job and watch movies." But don't lose sight of why you get to do that.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:05PM (#21909596)
Agreed. But the way I see it, the reason for all these sacrifices is so that other people can live a better, happier life.

On the one hand, I'm with 'icelancer here - there's not enough driven people in the society (that is, driven to do things, and not driven to gain status by incidentally doing some things). The more they are, the faster things can improve. On the other hand, everything seems to indicate that there will always be something to improve, so if everyone was driven like this, nobody would be left to enjoy the fruits of these sacrifices, making them ultimately pointless.

I don't know what the right balance is. I know I myself am not going to pressure anyone into seeking meaning outside their social circle and entertainment. From what I've observed, there seems to be a default balance - some people are happy with having a decent and a loving circle of friends (like OP), and some are unhappy with it (like myself). I see no good justification for forcing either kind to change, and I don't see either as better or worse than the other.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by AriaMinaei on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:30PM (#21909734)
> everything seems to indicate that there will always be something to improve, so if everyone was driven like this, nobody would be left to enjoy the fruits of these sacrifices, making them ultimately pointless.

I agree. But to me, this is not a dichotomy. As in, you don't have to choose between complete comfort (do your job and watch movies) and total sacrifice (devote all your time to a cause). You can have time for friends and hobbies and still do great good for your community and the larger society.

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by james_s_tayler on Monday December 30, 2019 @02:30AM (#21911493)
You totally can. Many people do. The people that do aren't the target audience of these kind of articles. It's simply not relevant to them. And that's OK.
Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by Viliam1234 on Monday December 30, 2019 @04:09PM (#21916737)
> Why isn't it okay anymore to just do my job, have friends and watch movies?

Partially because you having friends and watching movies doesn't make anyone rich. When people give you advice, it's meant to improve their lives, not yours. A guy who writes books will tell you to read more books, a guy who organizes seminars will tell you to attend more seminars, a venture capitalist will tell you to create a startup. (If you need to be told that watching movies is all right, you have to ask Netflix.)

Re:Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018) by cpach on Sunday December 29, 2019 @06:16PM (#21909323)
It’s totally fine to do that. To each their own :)