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Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by quotemstr on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:24PM (#21900159)
This anti-work ethic you see crop up once in a while is delusion. Success comes from perseverance, not idleness or detachment.

A few days ago, there was an article from some CEO claiming that you don't need to work hard to succeed. Today, we have an article from HBR cautioning about becoming too invested in one's work. This sentiment is dangerous. It's harmful to teach young people to be cynical, indifferent, and lazy, because the vast majority of progress really is made by the passionate and dedicated genius, not the detached crank-turner that HBR writers want impressionable young people to become.

Have a few people succeed without trying? Sure. They were stupid and lucky. Are you one of these people? Almost certainly not. Look at the history of science and innovation: the truth that emerges is that breakthroughs come not from relaxation, but from a combination of passion and hard work.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by zackmorris on Saturday December 28, 2019 @02:31PM (#21901131)
I almost downvoted your comment but decided not to, since I don't think it's good to do that just because I disagree with someone.

But I see your argument being repeated a lot, especially by successful people and the owner class, basically the people we think of as the top 10% and the 1%.

There are a couple of fallacies with your argument:

The first is that you view the unsuccessful as not hard-working enough. This goes back to the dawn of civilization and notions like republicanism (that some are endowed by the creator to be superior at handling matters of power, finance and government so their vote should take priority over the vote of the plebeian/proletariat) and continued up through feudalism and slavery. We still see it today in gerrymandering, voter suppression and the return of nationalism. It's a way to rationalize inequality by focusing on the individual instead of the system.

Which brings us to the second fallacy, which is that a person's situation is mostly dependent on individual effort. There are numerous studies indicating that upward mobility is falling in the US and around the world:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/social-...

So that the primary indicators of success today are being born into wealth or living in a wealthy community.

Personally, I think we're past a tipping point where wealth inequality is now too large to contain and we're in danger of losing democracy, which could lead to violent revolution and possibly world war III. Short of that, we're looking at the decline and extinction of all threatened species by the end of the century. Concentrated wealth is IMHO the number one threat to civilization and leads to the great problems of our time like underemployment and the failure to address externalities.

That said, I do agree that it's better to persevere than to give up.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by quotemstr on Saturday December 28, 2019 @03:32PM (#21901524)
I see your argument a lot more often that mine. Both are very old. This idea that success is random and therefore inequality is unfair also goes back to the dawn of civilization. Nevertheless, in history, it's far more often the brilliant individual than the expansive committee that's driven us forward. Do you really think that each person really is endowed with equal faculties for dealing with money and technology? Is merit an illusion? I just can't accept that.

Most non-inherited wealth --- not all, granted --- is deserved. (Inheritance of massive wealth is a problem because it grants unearned power to unproven people.) I think if we'd strictly applied the principles you invoke, our species would have never left the trees.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by trash_cat on Saturday December 28, 2019 @01:29PM (#21900676)
I think you are confusing "anti-work ethic" with the potential consequences of identity enmeshment with occupation, as this article describes. Western societies distribute social status, (read success) by occupation or by some community/world changing contribution. This puts pressure on individuals to sacrifice their psychological wellbeing in order to feel valued. But the choice to strive for social status and success is an individual one. Albeit not always conscious. You are free to work your ass off, but psychological health as a skill is neglected in our society. If people are to make world changing contributions, they should be aware of the consequences.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by mjr00 on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:45PM (#21900334)
This really depends on how you define success.

If success means creating something unique, new, and amazing that is known and loved by millions, whether that be a company, piece of art, or scientific innovation, then yes, it's unlikely you'll get there without an enormous amount of hard work, and unlikely you'll get there even if you put in that work.

If success means happily living with your partner in the suburbs of a flyover state in a moderately-sized house with a big backyard for your kids, you don't need to tie your life to your career.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by quotemstr on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:54PM (#21900410)
People born with talent have an opportunity to both themselves and the world to make use of this talent to do great things. When you replace a drive for greatness with contentment with mediocrity, you make us all worse off.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by sgt101 on Saturday December 28, 2019 @01:21PM (#21900621)
Less than one in 10,000 will have an opportunity of "greatness".

Most people might get moderate success, and if they take than with good grace and leave space and time in their lives for their community and their health we will all be better off.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by romanhn on Saturday December 28, 2019 @02:52PM (#21901276)
Guess what, nobody owes you, or the world at large, a thing. We only have one life and everyone's priorities are different. Want to spend your life chasing greatness? Be my guest. But if one would rather define happiness through friends and family, they have every right to do so. And plenty of people will be better off for that, themselves included.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by slothtrop on Saturday December 28, 2019 @04:37PM (#21901926)
Add to the fact, nobody chasing "greatness" (i.e. Outstanding recognition) had to be told to. They want to.

This anxiety surrounding advice advocating more self-awareness bc would-be influences might suddenly get lazy is ridiculous.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by jsmonkey on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:44PM (#21900332)
Working hard is good, but working so hard that you completely neglect rest of your life isn't. For most people's well being things like family and hobbies are at least as important as work, and there's nothing wrong with that. If our economic system doesn't allow them to enjoy those parts of their lives, then the fault lies on the system, not on individuals.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by tuckerconnelly on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:30PM (#21900221)
It may be an effect of the economic bubble we're in. It's an ethos that doesn't survive a crash :)
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by asveikau on Saturday December 28, 2019 @04:15PM (#21901776)
Or maybe people are working harder each year for decreasing post-inflation-adjusted wages and decreasing benefits, wages are not keeping up with costs in many industries and places, they are stressed out and asking why they put themselves through this.

Or perhaps, a scenario that will be familiar to many in tech and I know I have personally witnessed, that some corporate cultures are so completely full of narcissism, and they sweep people up until they think this sort of beast is normal, having a toll on mental health.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by quotemstr on Saturday December 28, 2019 @12:32PM (#21900234)
Yes. Kipling's gods of the copybook headings return in a rush when a stock market bubble pops. I wonder to what extent you can predict a crash by sensing when the mood of a society has disconnected effort from reward.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by fishingisfun on Saturday December 28, 2019 @04:21PM (#21901811)
I agree but many jobs today are seriously mundane and dont really allow for much creativity. I think it makes sense to put effort into other aspects of life and crank up your work hours towards something that'll have a lasting impact.
Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by Cougher on Monday December 30, 2019 @07:54AM (#21913014)
You ought to try to not think in extremes and false dichotomies. Suggesting that we refrain from fully identifying and enmeshing ourselves in our work is not advocating an "anti-work ethic".

"Success comes from perseverance, not idleness or detachment."

Beyond the false dichotomy, how are you defining success? By discovering/developing breakthroughs that earn a place in history? Given how few those people really are, it's a pretty good argument against not bothering to even try.

Re:What happens when your career becomes your whole identity by jariel on Saturday December 28, 2019 @03:10PM (#21901425)
This is not so much about 'hard work' or 'idleness' it's about 'identity', which errs towards a certain kind of professional identity when one is working all the time.

It's a very real phenom.

Also - consider that most 'extremely hardworking' bankers and lawyers are not creating jack (!) rather, they're competing with one another for customers and status. If they all chilled down none of us would notice in terms of lower value creation.