Im in the market for sound equipment. I just crossed these guys off my list.

Separate from this issue here, Sonos should be off your list. The UX becomes progressively worse and opaque, your time will be wasted owing to mandatory software updates, needless churn, etc.

I have been a user since 2014, and I emphatically will not continue to be their customer once my existing devices bite the dust.

This describes my experience exactly as well.

They will brick your older speakers or remove functionality. I have 7 Sonos speakers, spending $3-4k on them because quite frankly I love them and the technology was great. I bought a soundbar for my TV with sub and surround speakers and they sound fantastic, and being able to use them to play music was amazing.

But then they started removing functionality from their app, and the Play 1s don’t even work with the iPhone anymore unless you have a streaming service or you set up a music service. The ability to just play music and then play it on your speakers is gone. And they don’t give a fuck. They are completely unapologetic and they just forget about their older speakers like a bad habit and that’s why I will never buy another one again.

And their app is getting worse, they are forcing logging in to monitor your usage, etc. It’s infuriating. Their technology was amazing 5 years ago but now it’s annoying.

I bought two speakers they stopped supporting new features a few months later with no plans to support them. I would highly recommend against them. On their own the devices work “most of the time” but i have more trouble with them than I ever expected to have. I’ll never buy another Sonos product.

Same here. The only way to get these kinds of asinine behavior to stop is to hurt them in their pocket book; since it's apparently the only thing they care about.

I'm curious what you would recommend instead. Everyone is listing speakers they bought decades ago but what are the latest non-sonos speakers that people like?

Don't buy smart speakers. Just buy regular speakers. Then you can plug them into whatever you like, run whatever software you like (e.g. pi musicbox) etc. So you actually own them, and they should serve you well for many years, for whatever you may need.

Also don't buy soundbars. Speakers don't want to be long and skinny. You'll end up paying a lot more for a lot less sound.

Also consumer grade speakers are often more expensive for crappier sound. Look into professional models, like studio monitors. For example, JBL 305PMKII. You may be able to find a local store where you can listen to studio monitors before purchasing.

> Also don't buy soundbars. Speakers don't want to be long and skinny. You'll end up paying a lot more for a lot less sound.

From a practical perspective, my home simply doesn't have room for anything but a soundbar for my TV. My options are built-in TV speakers, or a soundbar.

I've found Guitar Center to be a good place to check out and buy monitor speakers and headphones.

I don't know if it still applies, but studio speakers used to be notorious for bad sound. I would also hope that you wouldn't be considering guitar amp-type speakers as well.

Depends on what you spend. Good studio monitors should have fairly flat response across the audio spectrum and most tend to be Near-field monitors which sound absolutely great when you are positioned in front of them as you would for mixing, but don’t sound quite as good when used as a general room speaker. Mind you they are often still better than many peoples setups just the same. The ones that are not Near field can work even better for a general audio situation but tend to cost even more.

Some studio monitors like the popular KRK series are not flat response and are a bit bass heavy.

This is why I said that studio speakers *used to be notorious for . . .". Recording studios were notorious for having bad sounding speakers.

Speakers (of any kind) can vary tremendously, which is why it's nice to be able to compare them. Guitar Center carries more than just guitar-specific items, which is why I thought it would be helpful to mention them; it's not something many people are aware of. I would never consider guitar speakers for general purpose use.

I never saw a section there for audio equipment, but I probably wasn't really paying enough attenton to that. I still think that for home sound that you're going to live with for a very long time, unless the manufacturer bricks them, it might be best to find a place that specializes in home sound systems.

There are fewer and fewer places that specialize in home sound systems, particularly the ones that let you compare numerous choices before you buy. The place that sold me most of my audio gear has been closed for 20 years.

Thing is some of those ancient speakers are still made and rated. As one example the BBC LS3/5a[1] was a published spec for a monitor speaker the Beeb put out in the seventies. Someone has been making a speaker that meets the spec ever since, and it's had a glowing reputation for a small monitor class speaker for decades.

Wharfdale Diamonds are much changed and developed, but still a well thought of small bookshelf speaker, though the range now includes floor standing and 7.1 multimedia systems.

In short, look to the budget hifi makes rather than smart or tech gimmicks. Many of the Japanese brands make speakers for the home market, but use Wharfdale, Tannoy or one of the other Western makes selling systems here. The Denon compact system I bought 30 years ago came with a pair of Wharfdale Diamonds, with a Denon badge. Technics used to ship badged Tannoy speakers -- not sure if they still do. When I had to replace it a year or two ago, the comparable modern Denon compact system had no option for included speakers. Mine now uses those 30 year old Denon badged Diamonds.

[1] https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/ls3-5a-full-bbc-specificat...

Many of the classic Japanese Hi-Fi makers are still around and make good non-smart amplifiers and speakers. Take at look at the offerings of e.g. Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, TEAC, Sony, Pioneer.

A few years ago I bought a TEAC amp[0] + speakers[1] , still very happy with both.

[0] https://www.teac-audio.eu/en/products/ai-301da-117088.html

[1] https://www.teac-audio.eu/en/products/ls-301-117096.html

JBL Pro 305's:

https://jblpro.com/en-US/products/305p-mkii

I had the 305's one generation before (mk 1, vs mk 2) and they're the best sounding speakers I've yet owned.

Only had two of them (stereo, front left and right), with an old logitech 5.1 system making up the rest of a 7.1 system. Over time I was intending on replacing those logitech speakers with further 305's. :)

I usually use a mini jack and and old stereo.

but “powered stereo speakers” are speakers with a built in amp. Most have analog inputs and Bluetooth (some even have turntable input). They can range in price up to almost 1000$.

I feel those analog inputs are important in making the device future proof.

Crutchfeild is a catalog seller but has good examples of this class of speaker:

Eg: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-wbA54LW1kow/g_463050/Powered-S...

Ah, Crutchfield. Glad to see they're still around. Pre-Google, their catalog was a great place to see and compare a ton of different audio kit in one place.

Google Play devices offer the same functionality at a fraction of the cost.

> This could go very bad for Sonos.

How could it? It's all server side. If such a virus existed, they'd just undo all the 'recycling' after the day it started circulating.

There's both a hardware and software bricking component.

Edit: I reread the thread and now I'm not so sure. It might be entirely software blacklisting.

But if that's the case, can't you ip blackhole Sonos' servers and still have it all work?

you think Sonos' equipment works without an internet connection?

I think so. The clients are all SOAP/UPnP, and there are lots of open source clients and API bindings. I could be wrong, though.

And spoof what ever they're sending from the speaker? Because the whole "recycle" mode is about getting that rebate.

Server is hardware, controlling OS and such is software. Both bricking components are present.

You probably don't need a virus or anything running in the end user's network.

If your Sonos can access the API to mark a device as recycled, so can you. So if you can predict serial numbers or just bruteforce them (depending on how complex they are) you might be able to brick every single Sonos out there...

I highly doubt they assign unique keypairs etc. to every single device...

> Imagine a virus that looks for Sonos devices on a network and bricks them all via "recycle mode"!

This would be an incredible public service. Unfortunately I don't have the skills to do it so I won't.

I mean it really wouldn't, because the virus would be dooming the devices to go into "recycle or trash" option, instead of the "reuse" option.

And otherwise it would just piss off Sonos owners?

If it's purely server-side it would force them to un-recycle everything, which would be a good thing.