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Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:12AM (#21872941)
Cycling also can go directly to specific locations, yet cycling is rare. For the particular case you described, the extra time (in most cases), the lack of cargo capacity, and the inability to take more than one person might explain this. And I don't underestimate the stigma against cyclists or how much work people believe cycling is.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by bobthepanda on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:21AM (#21873017)
In recent years electric bikes have become cheaper and more common and are definitely a way to solve this problem.

The only reason I don‘t own one is because outside of house and work there are few good secure locations to park a bike, and the area has a high rate of property crime.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by ben7799 on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:28AM (#21873065)
Bikes generally fail pretty miserably at trucking children around.

You're pretty much stuck going right to one of the giant dutch cargo bikes to carry kids and all their paraphernalia, and once you drop off your kid now you're riding a very slow very heavy bike that will take much longer to ride to your office and leave you much sweatier, especially since there's no flat easy bike infrastructure like the Netherlands.

I'm a long time cyclist and I've done stuff like take my kid to daycare in a Burley trailer and lock the trailer at the day care and then ride the bike to my office, then go and bike to the daycare and hook the Burley back up but this stuff takes a tremendous amount of time. It's a LOT harder than bike commuting as a single person with a more flexible schedule. Day cares/schools put a lot of requirements on when you drop off and when you pick up which make it much harder to shift your schedule around to make bike commuting work as well.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by bobthepanda on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @01:50PM (#21874078)
Electric bikes these days have ranges of 40+ miles, and provide assistance to maintain 20-25 mph, which would solve the "slow, very heavy bike" issue.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by sojournerc on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @11:59AM (#21879295)
I wonder about electric bikes sharing infrastructure with "manual" bikes.

At what point is it just an electric motorcycle and should move to the road.

There's a wide range of electric bikes from just pedal assist, to some you can just cruise, no pedaling.

Speed difference between the normal bike rider and the electric bike rider introduces risks to using that bike infrastructure.

I've personally had electric bikes fly past me on mixed use trails, and I'm not a slow cyclist. I think it may be too easy to reach unsafe speeds.

It's odd to me that on trails where motorized vehicles aren't permitted, somehow electric bikes get a pass.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by Finnucane on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:28AM (#21873063)
I live in New England and ride to work pretty much every day. I've had to make some adjustments--for instance, it factors into shopping for clothes, having all-weather gear, and so on. Fortunately my ride is only about 3 miles each way, so it's not a hard ride. In fact, traffic around here is bad enough that driving takes the same amount of time. And being on the bike so much less stressful than being in the car.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @02:06PM (#21874193)
Yes, I've pointed out to people that cycling doesn't necessarily take longer. At my previous apartment cycling and driving were comparable mainly because cyclists can park closer than drivers. Many drivers seem to think that counting the time spent parking is cheating, but as far as I'm concerned door-to-door time is what matters.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by Noos on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:16PM (#21876765)
One of my old jobs was the next town over, fifteen minutes by highway. It was impossible to bicycle. If I were to work in the industrial park in my city it would take an hour or so. We have a lot of distribution centers and factories on the outskirts of town because no one wants to live next to a mushroom farm or distribution center, yet they provide a lot of jobs.

A lot of you guys don't understand that not everyone is a wealthy 24 year old knowledge worker and can just live in the downtown and bicycle everywhere. People have cars because they enable you to even find work.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:34PM (#21876830)
I'd recommend reading this post I made elsewhere here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21872976

The easiest way to make cycling work is to pick where you live based on where you work. The default is to pick jobs or where you live that are convenient for driving. That won't lead to a good bike commute, as you've found.

> A lot of you guys don't understand that not everyone is a wealthy 24 year old knowledge worker and can just live in the downtown and bicycle everywhere. People have cars because they enable you to even find work.

I think most cyclists get that. For me specifically: I'm in my 30s and currently a PhD student. While I am rich from a global perspective, few people in the US would consider me wealthy. I usually live a few miles from where I work in a relatively cheap neighborhood.

And, as I pointed out elsewhere here, in my case cycling definitely saves me money. In fact, that's a major reason why I'm a cyclist.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21874175

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by captainbland on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:28AM (#21873064)
There's also a big problem of having to share the road with fast moving steel boxes, or perhaps having your own unprotected section of painted gutter littered with stationary steel boxes.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by WalterBright on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @04:56PM (#21875176)
Cycling's biggest problem is what to do with the bike at your destination.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by kqr on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @05:01PM (#21875204)
I don't know about you, but reserving space for a car is way more expensive than reserving space for a bicycle where I live, simply because one is so much bigger than the other.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by WalterBright on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @05:18PM (#21875320)
It's not about space for the bike, it's bicycle theft. I'd ride my bike to work sometimes because I could park the bike next to my desk. I never rode it elsewhere because of the theft problem.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by kqr on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @05:48PM (#21875468)
Taking three consecutive car parking spaces and building a roofed cage for secure bicycle parking on them would allow like 15 people to park their bike. That would cost 3 - 15 = -12 parking spaces. Yes, negative cost. Once you start seeing the solutions rather than focus on how bad things are, you'll see that bicycling is ridiculously efficient in almost any metric.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by bobthepanda on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @07:35PM (#21875921)
You can hem and haw about how efficient it is, but for most commuters the theory of efficiency doesn't matter; the actual implementation does.

When my local supermarket, the retail stores, restaurants, etc. have bike parking that is secure enough that I don't have to worry about a $1500 e-bike getting stolen, I'll get one. But they don't offer it, so I don't.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by burfog on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:13PM (#21876757)
The option to treat it like a motorcycle would help. You'd get a VIN, title, registration, and a plate.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by peatmoss on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @12:04PM (#21879326)
Licensing bikes is hugely contentious, but in the case of expensive electric bikes, I do wonder if those benefits would start to out weigh the downsides for some people.

As an aside, in my opinion, electric bikes are probably the most practical form of transportation available right now for most urban communities. They climb hills, go pretty fast, can offset the rolling resistance of fat confidence inspiring tires, are smaller and easier to park than a motorcycle, are easy to charge, and have a manual backup in case of battery depletion. I love two-wheeled transportation in all its forms and think the electric bikes that are on the market now are an awesome middle ground between motorcycle and push bike.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by bobthepanda on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @02:11PM (#21879956)
I think the key word is "option". In no way should we make registration of bikes compulsory. But at the very least I would like to insure something worth over $500-1k.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by nradov on Wednesday December 25, 2019 @07:13PM (#21881227)
Bike insurance is already available for those who want to buy it. Registration has no real bearing on insurance.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @06:15PM (#21875584)
I lock my bike with both a strong U-lock and a thick cable lock. Never had it stolen, even when I spent a summer in Baltimore. (Though I would take the bike in at night.) You don't need to have impenetrable security, just better security than the bike next to yours.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by analog31 on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @06:57PM (#21875763)
I park it in my office. The boss bought us a 4-bike storage rack. Nearby this rack my colleagues and I maintain a small collection of repair needs: Tubes, patch kit, tools, and a decent pump.

I've participated in bike related web forums, and talked to a lot of people about cycling. I'm trying to be somewhat of a bike evangelist without being too annoying. What I've learned is that like unhappy families, cycling stories are all widely different, and each person has to figure out a way of adapting to their own circumstances. For some, it's bike parking / theft, like you say. For others, it's arriving at work, drenched with sweat. Weather is an issue. Even specific routes have their own peculiarities. Traffic is a huge deal.

I'm seeing a lot more e-bikes.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by sagarm on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @08:57PM (#21876215)
Bike share helps reduce this problem quite a bit where it is available.

For a commute: zoning often requires parking for cars. It should be updated to require parking for bikes.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by monksy on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:23AM (#21873025)
Let's not forget infrastructure for it. Often times airports are off of major highways.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by rayiner on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:34AM (#21873103)
Cycling is rare because Americans live too far away from things to cycle anywhere. I’m about to do some last minute Christmas shopping. It’ll take me 1:10 minutes to get to Target by bus. It’ll take me 8 minutes driving. Cycling would be 18 minutes, but that’s just the first stop. (Also, I’d have to carry a bunch of stuff back on a bike, and it’s very cold and icy outside.) Biking to work or even the closest train station would be a multi-hour trip.

Biking is for childless yuppies and people in third world countries. It’s inconvenient, inflexible, and uncomfortable. We have cars in the first world and they make life immeasurably better. To the extent pollution is a problem, we can and already are addressing those problems with electric vehicles.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @02:15PM (#21874251)
Cycling takes some planning, but so does driving (think parking, maintenance, and fueling). As a cyclist you'd change your habits to consolidate and avoid trips. And for more difficult (and rarer) trips, there's nothing wrong with taking a car.

As for the comfort, I find the short discomfort spent in cold weather is well worth the more long term comfort of being in better shape. But to each their own.

And I'm not convinced that electric vehicles alone will necessarily solve the pollution problem. I find most people are blind to the issues with the chemicals involved in the production of batteries and solar panels, but I'm hopeful those issues will be resolved with future technologies. (Until recently I worked in a lab that does fire safety tests on batteries, though I was not involved in that project. But it became much harder for me to ignore those problems even only on the sidelines.)

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by kqr on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @05:04PM (#21875228)
Electric personal cars also have exactly the same problems as gasoline cars when it comes to congestion, they are just as deadly to pedestrians, they also spend 98% of their time unused, etc.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by safepants on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:40AM (#21873150)
You have the option not to do all your errands on 1 day. You choose to live in communities where car travel seems necessary. Your city has failed you by not providing alternatives to driving such as properly maintained bike infrastructure year round.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by xyzzyz on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @12:26PM (#21873475)
Does your city provide you with heated bike infrastructure?
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by btrettel on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @02:18PM (#21874266)
To be honest the discomfort from the cold when cycling is not a big deal. Wear appropriate clothing and take off a layer if you get hot.

I've spent multiple summers in Texas cycling and I'd say that was much worse, though still manageable.

If you have frequent winter precipitation that is more of a safety issue. Studded bike tires work well from what I've heard from someone who lives in Minnesota.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by analog31 on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @07:01PM (#21875782)
I have a dedicated winter bike with studded tires, and dress warm. I don't realistically expect very many people to bike year-round, at least when they're just getting into it. But the bike paths are certainly not empty during the winter in Madison WI.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by safepants on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @12:51PM (#21873648)
A brine solution and snow clearing equipment with brushes does the trick.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by UserIsUnused on Friday December 27, 2019 @12:59PM (#21892913)
I agree with the first paragraph, not with the second, specially this:

>Biking is for childless yuppies and people in third world countries

In well maintained cities you have metro everywhere. There are many european places where biking is not only the fastest way to work but the most comfortable. Also, lot's of trains allow you to put you bike in. In my dailly commute I see plenty of people doing just that, biking to train and then to work. A monthly pass that costs 30€ usually it's equivalent of 200€ expenses with cars (tolls and parking and fuel), not to mention the stress of dealing with the chaotic traffic that you can avoid with the train.

Children are not a big factor when your area has transport for children.

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by ido on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:40AM (#21873149)
Cylcling is very popular in many Western European cities.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by rayiner on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @01:31PM (#21873944)
Even in Western Europe it’s uncommon. The average German commute is 10 miles: https://www.dw.com/en/record-number-of-germans-commute-to-wo.... 80% of Germans don’t even bike weekly, much less daily.
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by analog31 on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @07:02PM (#21875784)
Indeed, this article suggests that distance is a key factor:

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best-kept-secret-dutch-bikin...

Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by pswenson on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:39AM (#21873145)
Now do Amsterdam
Re:Why It’s So Hard to Change People’s Commuting Behavior by ramshorns on Tuesday December 24, 2019 @11:43PM (#21876852)
What does "1:10 minutes" mean? Somewhere between one and ten minutes? One minute and ten seconds?