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Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by xfalcox on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:57AM (#21835998)
Can't wait for Mozilla to back a stable, native desktop client into a daily driver state so we can finally ditch Mattermost at work.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by rtpg on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:13AM (#21836175)
Seriously, I feel like it’s such an indictment on native app tool development that we have a bazillion new electron apps written by ppl all the time for weekend projects yet almost no one spitting out native apps to interface with services.

It’s clearly in demand (if a bit of a niche kind of demand)

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by Arathorn on Thursday December 19, 2019 @12:56PM (#21837360)
There are a bunch of very promising native desktop Matrix clients in progress:

https://github.com/Nheko-Reborn/nheko as a Qt telegram-like

https://github.com/quotient-im/Quaternion as a Qt xchat-like

https://github.com/manuroe/messagerie for instance is a SwiftUI client proof-of-concept that should work on macOS as well as iOS

None are as polished as Riot functionalitywise, but we will get there eventually - even more so if people contribute.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by MayeulC on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:32PM (#21839970)
Spectral is quite usable as well in my experience (At-based) https://spectral.encom.eu.org/

Fractal is the GTK counterpart https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Fractal

Thunderbird also has a Matrix back-end, though XUL is quite close to electron.

Lots of other clients https://matrix.org/clients/

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by pmoriarty on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:36PM (#21838389)
I wonder if there's one for emacs.

That's what I'd like to see.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by mindB on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:40PM (#21839016)
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by swsieber on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:48PM (#21838506)
There's the weechat terminal client.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by w354kjhllkj on Thursday December 19, 2019 @12:17PM (#21836899)
You answered your own question.

You can write a pretty and functional Electron app in a weekend.

To implement the same level of functionality and prettiness in a native app toolkit like Qt is at least a month of work.

It's the same story as Python versus C, or C versus Assembly.

When C was introduced, the old-timers had the same complains like we do today: why would you program in such a slow and inefficient language? Real programmers (TM) use Assembly, C is for lazy people who don't want to learn and who don't care about the awful resource wasting. 3 KB for a hello world? That's an absolutely ridiculous level of bloat.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by gdxhyrd on Thursday December 19, 2019 @01:54PM (#21837940)
> You can write a pretty and functional Electron app in a weekend.

You can also do so in Qt and other frameworks.

The fact that you are proficient in web frameworks does not mean other tools are less productive.

In fact, being proficient in modern web dev, including HTML, CSS, JS, TS, React, etc. takes way longer than learning something like Qt. And if you go to easier frameworks like Delphi or VB6, you would be amazed at the productivity speed.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by pmoriarty on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:40PM (#21838434)
"In fact, being proficient in modern web dev, including HTML, CSS, JS, TS, React, etc. takes way longer than learning something like Qt."

But there are already a ton of web developers who already know those web development technologies, but don't know Qt. So it would be extra effort for them to learn Qt. Much easier to just use React.

The same thing goes for why there so many academics write Java apps for their proof-of-concept research work. That's what they're taught in school and for many that's all they know.

Curiously, Python was able to make huge inroads in to the academic community, but that was largely due to having a killer app (Jupyter notebooks) along with having a bunch of desirable tools for scientific computing, data processing, and visualization. I'm not sure if there's anything as compelling in the Qt ecosystem that would be as attractive to web developers who already know HTML, Javascript, React, etc.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by OkGoDoIt on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:44PM (#21839648)
I still find WinForms to be a very productive and pleasant way to write native Windows apps, even quick weekend MVP’s.

Yes, it’s Windows only, but if you really want tight efficient native apps then you’ll want a custom built app for each platform anyway, with a nice standardized API for them to connect to. So I don’t see the Windows platform lock-in as a downside if the goal is good native performance.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by rwmj on Thursday December 19, 2019 @12:29PM (#21837044)
If Electron vs Qt/C++ were the only two choices that would be true. In reality there are lots of ways to write cross platform native apps without using C or C++: Gtk + scripting language of your choice (even Javascript); Tcl/Tk; WxWindows; Mono/C#; lots of Java options; Delphi/Lazarus.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by EGreg on Thursday December 19, 2019 @01:03PM (#21837450)
Isn’t NW.js way better than Electron?

And they have a robust ecosystem

https://hackernoon.com/why-i-prefer-nw-js-over-electron-2018...

https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by jlarocco on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:22PM (#21839901)
> To implement the same level of functionality and prettiness in a native app toolkit like Qt is at least a month of work.

That's really only true for web developers trying to make native apps, and only because they're used to the mess that is web development.

It's a piece of cake to build a small app in Qt with C++, and it's even easier using Python or Common Lisp or one of the other language bindings.

Like everything, it depends on each developer's experience which one is easier for them.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by saagarjha on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:45PM (#21840814)
> To implement the same level of functionality and prettiness in a native app toolkit like Qt is at least a month of work.

Qt is not native in the way that matters: using platform widgets. In fact, the choice of language really doesn't matter if you're using them right: if you have a platform-to-language bridge and it works, generally the end product is not too bad.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by anoncake on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:12PM (#21838168)
This is not at all the same thing. Programs written in C aren't inherently low-quality, everything abusing the web stack as an application platform – including Electron – is.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by tsimionescu on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:14PM (#21839847)
If you had said low performance, you would have had a point. Even then, someone else could say that programs based on Electron at least aren't inherently insecure, like programs written in C are.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by Quiark on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:35PM (#21841315)
Don't get that optimistic about Electron apps security
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by swiley on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:23AM (#21836276)
Native development on OSX and iOS both kind of suck unless you completely embrace objective C and coaca. I think that’s what’s turned so many people off to it.

It’s comparatively easy to write complex portable applications with tk (or even just strait win32 and whichever X11 widget toolkit is your favorite.)

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by shd4 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @01:51PM (#21837913)
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by swiley on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:11PM (#21841666)
That’s exactly what I’m talking about; you can’t reuse code on OSX and more or less have to start from scratch.
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by saagarjha on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:43PM (#21840800)
> Native development on OSX and iOS both kind of suck unless you completely embrace objective C and coaca.

You can try all-Swift development with SwiftUI.

Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by swiley on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:10PM (#21841660)
Well yeah that gives you an OS X app and you get to reimplement it completely from scratch for all the other platforms. So it’s exactly the same problem as objective C (except you can at least compile objective C on other platforms you just don’t get the GUI stuff.)
Re:Synchronous Messaging at Mozilla: The Decision by k__ on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:37AM (#21836420)
At least some people try to work on that issue:

https://www.outrunlabs.com/revery/