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Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by macNchz on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:26AM (#21834658)
Despite all the innovation in the headlights themselves, it seems that a significant portion of drivers these days can’t seem to remember to turn them on. I am constantly trying to get cars in front of me on the highways near NYC to realize their lights are off at night. It’s an interesting study in UX, I think: https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/heres-why-so-many-cars-d...
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by wiggles_md on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:12AM (#21835005)
I assign some blame to always-on modern gauge clusters. You couldn’t see the old-style front lit ones at night unless you turned on your headlights, so there was a sort of natural reminder.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by nucleardog on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:53PM (#21840855)
I think between always-on/lcd gauge clusters and DRLs that's a large part of the cause, but I think there are also a lot of really simple solutions that could be explored.

Right now the only way to realize you don't have your lights on when you have DRLs is to realize that your gauge cluster is missing the notification that the headlights are on.

I'd wager simply adding an icon in the gauge cluster like an orange icon with a cross through it would solve a large portion of the issue as it would only rely on people noticing the active notification rather than the absence of another.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by orev on Thursday December 19, 2019 @12:15PM (#21836878)
I think it’s more a function of the street lamps that allow you to see the road without having to turn on the headlights. If people can’t see where they’re going, it’s obvious very quickly.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by LeifCarrotson on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:49PM (#21838510)
In a lot of northern states in the winter, one of the previous societal expectation was that you'd turn your lights on whenever it was snowing - which, around here, is pretty much constant, as is the resulting salt residue on windshields. It's not very bright either because the sun at solar noon peaks at about 20 degrees above the horizon and is behind perpetual clouds.

But that's still bright enough that a lot of automatic headlights don't turn on.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by thrower123 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:44PM (#21839645)
At least in my state, you are required by law to have your headlights on if your windshield wipers are going.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by singingboyo on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:34PM (#21838967)
Don't most (if not all) auto headlights turn on when the wipers are on, though? So, off if just cloudy, on in snow/rain.

I know mine do turn on, even at the lowest intermittent setting. I thought I'd read somewhere that that was typical, but... maybe not?

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by magduf on Friday December 20, 2019 @10:37AM (#21844896)
Mine don't, and my car is pretty new. The problem is: I leave my wipers on almost all the time, rain or shine. With automatic wipers, there's little reason to turn them off, so I end up just leaving them on most of the time, and then when I get splashed by a passing vehicle going through a puddle or something, the wipers will automatically clear the windshield.

You wouldn't want the headlights to turn on all the time when wipers are on automatic mode. Now why they don't turn on for regular modes, I'm not sure, but probably consistency: if you don't turn them on for automatic mode, but you do for regular mode, then that's going to be too confusing for the driver. Maybe they should come on when the wipers are activated in any mode and stay on for a certain number of seconds (by "stay on", I mean actively clearing the windshield, not just waiting for water to appear). But this might be too unreliable in practice?

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by LeifCarrotson on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:54PM (#21839166)
Yes, but powdery flurries are blown off by a light breeze not to mention driving at 25+ mph, so wipers don't often need to be used.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by pragmatick on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:09AM (#21834982)
Many cars in scandinavian countries don't allow your lights to be turned off when the engine is running. I actually prefer that.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by kilpikaarna on Thursday December 19, 2019 @11:10AM (#21836145)
Because it’s illegal to drive with the lights off even during daytime. Which in winter might not be that light anyway.

We have a ’03 VW Golf that turns the lights on when the engine starts, but requires you to turn the knob from Off via Parking lights to On to use the high beams. But then it doesn’t warn you that the lights are on when you shut the engine off. So whenever you use the high beams you’ll probably end up running the battery down afterwards because you’re not used to having to turn the lights off manually.

Bad UX was a thing before computerized dashboards.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by dr_orpheus on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:32PM (#21838361)
Just curious, but how long have you had that car? I have an '01 Passat that has the same design where the lights come on when the engine starts. It used to beep at me if the lights we still on when I opened the door to the car. But that died a few years ago (and I have since had to get my car jumped multiple times from leaving it on so I definitely get you point). Just wondering if it was more of a "bad part" than "Bad UX"
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by kilpikaarna on Friday December 20, 2019 @12:43AM (#21841959)
Oh, didn’t think of that! Only had it for about 1.5 years.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by mrguyorama on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:37PM (#21838406)
I'm surprised it would run the battery down. My 2004 toyota had fully manual exterior lights, but they would shut off automatically after about 30 seconds if the car was turned off. No help for you if you forget the dome light on though
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by blaser-waffle on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:07PM (#21838120)
Aye, Canada requires daytime running lights. Helpful in the snow and dark and dreary winters... like right now...
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by TheCapn on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:40PM (#21838431)
Its got its own drawbacks though. DRLs don't turn on your taillights so you still get people in dusk/night/bad weather who don't turn their lights on and you cant see them easily when approaching from the rear.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by magduf on Friday December 20, 2019 @10:37AM (#21844906)
I see this ALL the time. People drive around at night with their DRLs on, and never turn on their real headlights.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by NightlyDev on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:39PM (#21839013)
Usually taillights turn on automatically when dark.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by adrianmonk on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:03PM (#21838653)
This seems like one of those things where the industry (and/or regulation) has stagnated and is missing really easy, obvious wins in UX.

Why not beep at me or otherwise alert me if it's night and I'm driving with my lights off? You know there's already a light sensor in the car, and there's already a way to beep at people or show them messages (oil is low, parking brake engaged, etc.)

There's a thing that beeps at me when my gas tank gets low. And there's a thing that beeps at me when my seat belt isn't fastened. So obviously it's OK to beep at me while driving. There's even a thing that beeps at me if I accidentally leave my headlights on and might drain the battery. Which is a fine thing to warn about, but surely not as important as a safety issue like driving with headlights off.

One could say that beeping at people whose headlights are off at night is not necessary because many cars (maybe most?) already have an automatic headlight mode, so the driver can just use that and the problem is solved. But that ignores one simple fact: people aren't doing it. Watch cars drive down a road at night, and it won't take long until you see someone whose headlights are off. I'd wager a lot of the time their car has an automatic headlight mode but they don't have the switch in the right position.

As computer people know from fighting server downtime, if something is important, you monitor whether it's behaving as required, and if it isn't, you alert.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by martythemaniak on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:59AM (#21834905)
This is one of those things you didn't realize could be better until someone did it.

My Model 3 has everything set on auto. If the car can't see, it'll turn the lights on. If it doesn't see an incoming car, it'll turn on the high beams.

After a year of driving it as my only car, I needed a second car and got a cheap ICE clunker. Having to manage lights is a PITA and basically a failure of design.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by scott_s on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:35PM (#21838379)
I had a similar experience when I got a 2018 Honda Accord. I used to rarely ever take advantage of my brights, but now they're on regularly because my car automatically determines when they can be used.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by sjcoles on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:44PM (#21838468)
It doesn't do that great of a job though. I consistently get blinded by newer cars with automatic headlights when they are very far away due to rolling hills. The car can't see me but I sure as freaking hell can see its headlights burning straight into my fucking retinas.

I've had instances of them not detecting my smaller, older, car properly even when straight on. It's great to get blinded on a 2 lane 55mph road at night.

[dead]
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by omni on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:50AM (#21835332)
Leaving safety critical functionality to chance is bad engineering, it's not some ubermensch societal design or whatever you're going for here.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by ska on Thursday December 19, 2019 @02:42PM (#21838452)
Existence proof: Every time you see a car driving at dusk (or later) without lights on is an instance of this technology failing.

Beyond that, a significant percentage of all drivers cannot or will not manage high beams correctly.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by MS90 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @04:19PM (#21839440)
That's not the technology failing, that's the users failing. Technological failure would imply that manually turning your lights on and off somehow breaks them or renders them otherwise nonfunctional, or the lever/switch itself breaks.

If someone got in a car and tried to put it in drive without starting it, would that be a technological failure of ignition switches?

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by ska on Friday December 20, 2019 @01:43PM (#21846432)
You are correct that I was a bit sloppy with terminology, but the point is it is not a user failure, but a failure in design. If your users consistently fail to execute an action with your product correctly, it is a failure of the product, not the user. You can mitigate sometimes with training, but if a better design is available, that's usually the best course.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by lloeki on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:35AM (#21834728)
I’m borderline thinking the secret agenda behind daytime running lamps is actually not related to daytime at all.

Many (all?) modern cars have an auto mode for night lights but it seems to endlessly baffle people as to how they work. At some point it seems you can throw all the UX you want, some are hell bent to skip on being attentive to basic driving safety anyway.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by rob74 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:36AM (#21834743)
Fortunately (at least where I'm living) automatic headlights are already more widespread than the fancy "matrix-lighting" headlights, for the simple reason that a light sensor on the windshield is cheaper than two state-of-the-art headlights. But, I confess, if anybody would move the switch from "Auto" to "Off" on my car, I might join the people driving without lights for some time before I would notice it...
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by lagadu on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:47AM (#21834829)
I'm like that too. Furthermore I have a story about that: A couple months ago I found myself driving a car that didn't have automatic windshield wipers. I drove in the rain for a couple of minutes without turning them on and only realized what was happening by the time I asked myself "why can't I see anything?".
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by clarry on Friday December 20, 2019 @06:28AM (#21843317)
Happened to me after taking my car to inspection a couple years back. I keep lights in auto position always, but I guess they test the parking lights and other positions and afterwards left them turned off. Took me quite a while before I realized I'm driving without lights.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by empath75 on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:42AM (#21834787)
I have kids that like to play with switches and it has happened to me a couple of times.
Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by sesuximo on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:44AM (#21834808)
This is my pet peeve. I have seen several police cars with their lights off as they leave a station near my workplace! Unbelievable.

I also see a lot of cars with brights on but no lights. I annoy the people around me by asking them the difference between brights and lights and the answers are very depressing. It seems that many people fiddle with a few buttons until they see light in front of them and then consider everything good.

Re:How Complex Modern Headlights Can Be by megashroom on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:35PM (#21841048)