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Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by fatbird on Thursday December 19, 2019 @03:47AM (#21833147)
I continue to be involved in development of a Meteor app that started in the 0.8 days, and has been actively maintained up to current versions. I'm a little sad, too, that "Meteor" as a technology all its own hasn't developed legs, but honestly, at this point it's a build stack and little more. Once you use React over Blaze, all it really offers you is a build process and a lack of need to set up your own GraphQL API; in exchange, you get exploding build times because of the uglification library, and something that you know is nothing more than a nodejs app under the hood, but with just enough special sauce mixed in that you don't want to look under the hood, hoping the vendor that's reduced the dev staff to 1 will keep in good shape.

It's a missed opportunity, but the mistake was the Meteor Development Group's in betting on the JS community being satisfied with an "opinionated curation of the stack". The JS community has the attention span of rabid squirrel, and this was obvious back in the 0.8 days. They were never going to love a single bundle of choices for long.

Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by kabes on Thursday December 19, 2019 @05:44AM (#21833702)
Meteor 0.8 was released in 2014, and I'm sure your app would still work on the latest Meteor release without much changes, while in the meantime offering all the latest JS features (JS in 2014 was a completely different world).

How many other JS build tools & frameworks from 2014 can say the same?

Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by fatbird on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:26AM (#21835134)
Good lord has it been that long?

It's on Meteor 1.6 now, and you'd be mistaken about "much changes". Blaze to React was a nearly a rewrite; Atmosphere packages to npm was a significant change for the internal dependencies we developed; removing the custom file loader itself that preceded Atmosphere packages meant touching every single file.

The original code might have still worked, but the code would be helplessly outdated and stuck on a dying platform's technologies. As it is, though, the extensive and continuing effort to update the code means that now, we have a React/node app with an idiosyncratic webchannel connection to Mongo and a build process that's outdated but manageable, and still under active development of new features.

I credit the Meteor Development Group with recognizing that the stack they wanted to lock people in on, wasn't going to work (Blaze, Atmosphere, Mongo) and providing a paced transition off those pieces early on. But if we hadn't kept pace, we'd have a half million LOC app that would be termed "legacy".

Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by kabes on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:03AM (#21835434)
But if you had picked any other tool from 2014, you'd probably also be stuck with a legacy code base now, without any clear transition path except a big bang rewrite. You would have probably picked angularjs or backbone back in 2014 and a switch to react would have been even more trouble. Meteor allows you to mix blaze & react, mix atmosphere & npm packages, mix their old module systems with commonjs and ES6 modules.

We made the same transition, but just replacing one package/ui part at a time when it suited us, so we always kept releasing new features each sprint while gradually modernizing our code base.

Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by fatbird on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:37AM (#21835763)
True: we'd have faced the same transition with any other stack. In hindsight, Meteor wasn't a bad choice, it just didn't live up to its promise of sidestepping churn and offering an opinionated stack that would endure. I don't know that any did.
Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by sim0n on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:27AM (#21835142)
Not exactly a framework, but a React app from 2014 will still work great in 2019 and can be updated with very little pain.

Build tools wise, a simple Webpack/Babel config from 2014 would be relatively straightforward to update to the latest versions.

Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by Aeolun on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:50AM (#21834422)
How many JS build tools from 2014 exist? And how many are still used? I think both will be fairly close to zero.
Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by kabes on Thursday December 19, 2019 @09:06AM (#21834964)
That's my point. Other people had to rewrite their software for new build tools, while our Meteor app started 5 years ago never needed any big changes, while we could gradually adopt ES6+ features, modules, dynamic imports, ...
Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by conradfr on Thursday December 19, 2019 @08:21AM (#21834617)
Are Grunt and Gulp still not used?
Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by conradfr on Thursday December 19, 2019 @10:24AM (#21835633)
*aren't -not
Re:State of JavaScript 2019 by Aeolun on Thursday December 19, 2019 @07:12PM (#21840626)
Maybe in really old and ossified projects?