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Re:Amateur Radio by msla on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:18PM (#21817518)
I can listen to the spectrum just fine without a license. Why would I want to talk on it?

More to the point, why would I want to have to get the government's permission in order to talk on it?

Also:

> If you like outdoor activities in areas where cell phone coverage is poor (camping, hiking, skiing, dense urban gatherings)

If you mention this as a possible use, mention that it is illegal to encrypt amateur radio communications, so you must broadcast your family's information and plans for the world to hear. That's quite the security risk.

Re:Amateur Radio by jascii on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @04:23PM (#21818994)
> More to the point, why would I want to have to get the government's permission in order to talk on it?

One of the key purposes of the amateur radio service is experimentation. This brings with it the risk that I might inadvertently disrupt other communication services, potentially endangering human lives. The tests/licensing guarantees a minimum level of competence to mitigate that risk, while the clear-text and station identification requirements makes it possible to tell me to stop it if I do end up disrupting other services.

I see it comparable to our driver license system. Yes it invades our freedom somewhat, but it reduces a lot of human suffering.

Re:Amateur Radio by krupan on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:32PM (#21817705)
If you used less regulated CB in the old days and heard what a garbage dump it could turn into, you might appreciate more regulated frequencies. Or maybe not, I don't know.

As far as your encryption concerns go, you have to go to extra effort for any of your ham transmissions to be heard by the whole world. Generally it's just a mile or two radius, line of site, only to those who are listening during the short interval while you are transmitting. Far, far different from posting something on the internet.

Re:Amateur Radio by blihp on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:57PM (#21818017)
Funny you should compare it to the Internet. I remember the days when you could post something online and not worry about it because 1) only a very tiny fraction of the world was online 2) even if you were online, good luck finding it unless someone told you where it was.

My main point being that amateur radio only has security through obscurity as it only takes one device locally listening/relaying your signal to invalidate the distance assumption in the same way people posting things online thought 'nobody's ever going to care about this post' all those years ago. A key difference being that you have no option to encrypt and the other party doesn't need to MITM you to get any potentially interesting information.

Re:Amateur Radio by vidanay on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:45PM (#21817863)
Sadly, you can get the same appreciation by listening to 7.200 for a few days right now.
Re:Amateur Radio by msla on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @03:23PM (#21818357)
> As far as your encryption concerns go, you have to go to extra effort for any of your ham transmissions to be heard by the whole world.

Being heard by the whole region is even worse.

So, how can I prevent the people in my region from hearing my plans when I broadcast them unencrypted?

> Far, far different from posting something on the internet.

I don't use public Internet fora as a cell phone replacement.

You advocated using amateur radio in that capacity.

Re:Amateur Radio by AWildC182 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @03:42PM (#21818580)
All of these points are valid to an extent, however they all exist on every other service that fills the same role.

FRS: unencrypted, type accepted radios only. Extremely low radiated power and sensitivity.

GMRS: Gotta pay $70 to the gubment every 10 years, type accepted only, unencrypted.

MURS: Unencrypted (mode restricted), and very few usable channels, type accepted.

CB: Unencrypted, unwieldy equipment, full of lunatics, type accepted.

At the end of the day, you live in a society that requests you follow some laws and get licenses for things that can effect others. The encryption issue is contentious and not entirely one-sided but realistically you're far more likely to be bothered over the public bands and the security risk you fear is rather non-existent. I don't exactly know of a hams being kidnapped or attacked in the streets. The US is far safer now that it ever has been on a crime level so having some trust in your fellow man is not unwarranted.

If you really want to be left alone, use Fusion or Dstar over simplex :)

Re:Amateur Radio by Johnny555 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @04:05PM (#21818824)
If you mention this as a possible use, mention that it is illegal to encrypt amateur radio communications, so you must broadcast your family's information and plans for the world to hear. That's quite the security risk.

I wouldn't use ham radio as a replacement for normal cell phone personal chatter, but more for updates "Hey dad, me and Judy are going to that cave we saw last year, will call you when we're back out. KG12345 signing off" or "Help, my father fell off a cliff on the John Doe trail about a mile from the trailhead"

It's a broadcast channel, not a private channel, so don't use it for personal chatter that you wouldn't want other people to overhear. Using some common sense eliminates the privacy risk of other people overhearing you

Re:Amateur Radio by rsync on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @03:38PM (#21818532)
"More to the point, why would I want to have to get the government's permission in order to talk on it?"

Actually, I really appreciate this sentiment.

One thing that has always seemed odd to me (as a non-HAM with a marginal interest in RF comms) is how authoritarian and ... adherent the community is.

There is no deviation from the established regulations and a striking lack of interest in even discussing amendments or alternatives to the rules.

Whether it is the prohibition of encrypted comms or the radio typing categories (that cause me to respond to fire calls with, literally, three radios in my hand) you will find very little sympathy or enthusiasm for stepping outside the party line even a bit.

... which surprises me because you'd think HAM would be skew libertarian ... or something like that ...

Re:Amateur Radio by AWildC182 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @03:52PM (#21818688)
Realistically the FCC has __very__ little enforcement capability/interest right now. The views you see on the internet are from a very vocal group that is worried about maintaining the status quo and not losing access to any bands because corporate interests decide they need the spectrum.

If you want to go off and be a pirate you can probably get away with it, given that the top selling walkie talkie on amazon is an incorrectly marketed ham handheld that can also broadcast on public safety/police frequencies, with or without being set to them. I wouldn't advise it though because if you do get caught they tend to make an example of you, and if you know enough to not get caught, you can easily pass the tech test and beyond so just get licensed for the cost of a happy meal and enjoy.

Personally, I actually support having encrypted sub bands like we have for everything else, with the exception that station ident should be in the clear and I would like to see the tech test be easier.

Re:Amateur Radio by mirimir on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @06:31PM (#21820195)
The ban on encryption has always seemed odd to me. I mean, WiFi is spread-spectrum radio, and it's encrypted. And it's not necessarily short-range. I've done well over several km with Ubiquiti radios driving parabolic dishes.

What I'd want would basically be tinc or another P2P VPN via radio. Like WiFi meshnet, but not limited to line of sight.

Re:Amateur Radio by AWildC182 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @07:26PM (#21820607)
One option I've been looking at is the LoRa transceivers that have come out. A couple have bluetooth 5.0 baked in so you could realistically make a really low part count bridge for your phone to let you send encrypted mesh networked texts to other people running similar hardware. There's at least one person working on this I know of but they're not super forthcoming about source.

As for wifi, it's worth noting that while you can get a ton of gain, you do so by making the signal directional so long story short you always cover very roughly the same volume, be it a long super skinny wedge, medium donut or a small sphere.

Re:Amateur Radio by mirimir on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @09:28PM (#21821213)
Huh. Anything with GPS freaks me out. Even WiFi, now that Google etc have mapped so many damn APs. Or cellular, of course.

But then, here I am on a wired uplink. I guess it's just that I trust my understanding of nested VPN chains in Linux. And that I trust the hardware and software enough.

Android and iOS, though, I don't understand or trust.

You make a good point about WiFi. Not going transcontinental with that. Except adjacent continents, maybe.

Re:Amateur Radio by AWildC182 on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @12:42PM (#21827267)
If you don't like using your phone, theoretically anything with bluetooth would work with the bridge, or you could just add a microcontroller and a little keyboard and display to have something self contained. Something like the toy messenger everyone is hacking to open garage doors.
Re:Amateur Radio by mirimir on Wednesday December 18, 2019 @03:21PM (#21828995)
OK, thanks.