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Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by chii on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:42AM (#21811246)
> You inadvertently kicked the ladder....no need for a new guy.

and so would you argue the same for the farmer who planted fields? Did that farmer kick the ladder for the hunter-gatherer?

The new guy _should_ have a different education, and provide value in a different way. May be instead of doing automate-able jobs, he/she now works as an entertainer, paid for by the guy who did the automation (as they are richer now, and can afford to do so).

The thinking that 'automation' destroys jobs is too narrow. The pie grows bigger when work is automated.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by smallnamespace on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:53AM (#21811291)
> Did the farmer kick the ladder for the hunter-gatherer?

looks around

Certainly seems that way.

How many tribes, peoples, and nations no longer exist because they had a less efficient means of production than their neighbors?

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by jcranmer on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:22AM (#21814338)
While the answer is difficult to ascertain, anthropological comparisons between farmers and hunter-gatherers suggests that the answer is rather close to 0.

Fun fact: hunter-gatherer lifestyles require far less work to maintain self-sufficiency than agricultural lifestyles. In fact, it wasn't until around 1900 or so that agricultural societies caught up to hunter-gatherer societies in metrics such as life expectancy and general health welfare.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by smallnamespace on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:47PM (#21817890)
What happens when hunter-gatherers and farmers come into conflict over land, which the latter utilize far more efficiently (in a calories / sq km sense)?

Note that as population densities rise, land becomes a bottleneck for a population more than number of available hours.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by laurentnotsaint on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @12:28PM (#21815979)
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by tartoran on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:07AM (#21814138)
The farmer replaced the hunter gatherer but not with a robot, the work was still done by humans, and in fact they continued to hunt. The industrial revolution too, automated parts of labor but didn’t take the human out of the equation. This is a different situation though, it’s not equatable in the same sense. The problem with this type of automation is that the early bird will inadvertently kick the ladder; hopefully won’t turn into a feudal like society where the lower class entertains because this, as it may sound decent, is in fact a power imbalance that could easily turn into abuse. History shows us time and time again power patterns. And we should not be only hopeful it will not turn into that, we should actively make sure it won’t. In my honest opinion.
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by InitialLastName on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @04:17PM (#21818938)
> The farmer replaced the hunter gatherer but not with a robot, the work was still done by humans,

Critically, the work was done by fewer humans (per unit of caloric energy). This allowed other people to specialize in other ways that provided value to the farmers.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by tartoran on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @06:27PM (#21820158)
Sure but does automation equate specialization?
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by chii on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @07:13PM (#21820490)
someone must specialize to produce the automation.
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by tartoran on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @09:42PM (#21821283)
Would it hurt the really good craftsmen who prefer to do it manually for higher quality? I wish I could get a pair of shoes that are custom made for my feet by a shoemaker. I’d pay more since they are better quality, last longer and are serviceable, the soles and the heels are still replaceable and there are still, luckily, shoe repair shops around. The thing is that it’s almost unheard of, at least here in NYC of a shoemaker like that nowadays. Automation killed them long time ago. Along with that we did lose some quality with it.

Whoever specializes to automate doesn’t care about the craft or quality as much as quantity. We’re in a better place now, luckily nobody goes barefoot these days, but I wish there was a solution where craftsmen could continue doing their art and craft the way they are used to without being pushed out by automation. I wonder if a compromise could be reached to meet that halfway such that automation becomes merely a tool in the hands of craftsmen, a solution where man is still at the center of his game and uses tools to enhance their game.

But the general consensus is that everything will be eventually automated away and the only things left for people to do is entertain eachother or something to this tendency.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by Jolter on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:54AM (#21811300)
It does grow bigger, assuming that the education level of workers is increasing. This is one of the founding tenets of Scandinavian social democracy. Eventually society will expect every citizen to go to at least college. This becomes more or less tenable with tuition-free higher education.
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by me_me_me on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @07:20AM (#21812763)
> Eventually society will expect every citizen to go to at least college

This is not a personal dig, but you clearly did not brush with the real world. There are a lot of smart people out there that through no fault of their own couldn't go to collage, but there are others that would not get far anywhere...

That's just how the cruel distribution mistress works.

Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by Jolter on Thursday December 26, 2019 @06:54AM (#21883244)
Well you're clearly no Swedish Social Democrat...
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by adrianN on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @05:50AM (#21812413)
Not everybody is intelligent enough to go to college. Society needs to provide for those people too.
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by DataWorker on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @12:12PM (#21815730)
The point is to make education not require so much intelligence. It’s a strange goal but at least people are somewhat honest about it.
Re:Coders Programming Themselves Out of a Job (2018) by jotm on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:35PM (#21816930)
Well, the automated farmer certainly kicked the ladder for everyone else.

Try and start a farm now, you can't compete without serious investment.

The high tech farms will send their overabundant produce 2000 miles and still undercut you, while profiting.

It's impressive, really, but it does put many local farms and would be farmers (lots of land, no other skills/ideas) out of a job.