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Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by michalu on Monday December 16, 2019 @10:41AM (#21803803)
That's to be expected. He was ousted from the company, has no control now so there's little reason why he should be bullish on a stock run by other people.

Plus, the future isn't so clear and the markets are at all time highs and he has other company that may require liquidity in the coming years. Better be in cash.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by jodrellblank on Monday December 16, 2019 @10:47AM (#21803864)
the markets are at all time highs

Isn't the world economy built on the idea that markets will always go up? Every year should be an all time high, otherwise we're in recession which is (apparently) tragedy to be avoided at all costs, no?

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by PeterisP on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:21AM (#21804155)
Recessions are unpleasant, but it's not considered a tragedy that should be avoided at all costs because they're not really considered as avoidable.

The 'business cycle' of expansion and contraction is obviously visible in history and has reasonable macroeconomic explanations, and it's expected to continue.

People try to predict the timing of it (which is hard because acting on these predictions often alters reality so that they're less likely to come true), and they definitely try to ensure that recessions aren't long and hard and that the economy can recover from them faster, but nobody is saying that they can prevent a recession, and the interventions which can artifically postpone a recession (i.e. postpone a correction of some market) would generally only make the recession much worse when it happens.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by ImaCake on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:10AM (#21804071)
My problem with "all time highs" and "biggest single day drop" is that, historically, this is true for every latest date. Of course it's an all time high; 2% growth year on year is compound growth on an ever larger pile of capital! Ditto for biggest single day drops, you can't compare raw number drops of a given index today with the 2001 or 2008, there are so many more bits of capital today than 10 years ago.

It is less the assumption that the market always goes up (eventually) and more the lack of mathematical comprehension.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by ikeboy on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:05AM (#21804039)
No. GDP should always be rising. Markets not necessarily so.

1987 saw a massive market crash with no recession.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by ineedasername on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:46AM (#21804407)
If GDP is rising, that should mean output, and therefore sales, and therefore value/marketcap should generally be higher as well. Sure, they don't have to, there are scenarios where they won't, but the two should still be closely correlated over any medium term or longer time span.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by michalu on Monday December 16, 2019 @10:52AM (#21803921)
Yes but in series of "contract" / "expand higher" cycles, and right now we're definitely not in the contraction period.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by thorwasdfasdf on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:43AM (#21804367)
It's not just that it's at all time highs. PE ratios are also at all time highs: that's the Price to earnings ratio. There's a number of indicators right now that are at all time highs like the Warren buffet ratio (GDP/earnings), all pointing saying this market is really expensive.

This is the most hated bull market ever. None of the experts are buying heavily into this market (it's all stock buybacks that's driving this market up).

So, you can see why everyone is uneasy about these extremely high PE ratios.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by mypalmike on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:11PM (#21804687)
Which PE ratios are at all time highs? Nasdaq aggregate PE is elevated above median but not at an all time high.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by mrep on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:06PM (#21804627)
> PE ratios are also at all time highs: that's the Price to earnings ratio

What index are you looking at? SP 500 is at about 23 [0] which while higher than median, is definitely not at all time highs.

[0]: https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-pe-ratio/table/by-month

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by rootusrootus on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:47AM (#21804417)
Since you mention Warren Buffet, I will say that what makes me most nervous about the market is that collectively everyone seems to be concluding that it's overheated. By the time the hordes figure it out, it's already happened.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by Clubber on Monday December 16, 2019 @02:40PM (#21806358)
This recession talk seems to be happening suspiciously close to an election year. It's almost as if someone is trying to concoct a self-fulling prophecy.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by tehlike on Monday December 16, 2019 @08:03PM (#21809448)
This was the case last year too... In 2017 and 18, there was discussions of melt up and then melt down...
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by lotsofpulp on Monday December 16, 2019 @01:33PM (#21805632)
Have the hordes figured it out?
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by tim333 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @12:21AM (#21810884)
>Isn't the world economy built on the idea that markets will always go up?

Not really. Recessions are where there is less spending and production, not when the stockmarket goes down.

While stockmarkets and property prices and the like to tend to go up and up in nominal terms a lot of that is because of the currency they are denominated in losing value through inflation. If you adjust for that there is much less of an uptrend.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by AznHisoka on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:05AM (#21804033)
Doesn’t Japan serve as a counter argument?
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by xboxnolifes on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:34AM (#21804264)
No, it just implies Japan is still in a recession.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by OnlineGladiator on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:46PM (#21805085)
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're essentially saying "the markets always rise over time" is a fundamental law that cannot be broken, and counterexamples are clearly just temporary recessions (no matter how long the recession).

When you take the logic to such extremes, it becomes a meaningless statement. It's literally impossible to disprove this assertion if you just ignore the evidence that says it's not true. Japan is absolutely a counterexample.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by BurningFrog on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:26AM (#21804192)
The world economy wasn't built. It emerged.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by at-fates-hands on Monday December 16, 2019 @10:47AM (#21803858)
I would also add the state of the market right now is favorable for sellers. Might as well strike when the market is hot and people will gobble his stocks up without any issues.

Considering an impending recession, it just makes sense he would dump these now.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by pc86 on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:14AM (#21804103)
I've been hearing about this impending recession for the better part of a decade now, is this just something people repeat so that when there is an inevitable downturn they can say "look I was right!"?
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by rootusrootus on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:45AM (#21804388)
Some people will always be predicting a recession, sure. But the yield curve inversion a month or so ago is an indicator that a substantial number of people agree on. But IIRC it reversed again after inverting.

Certainly in raw numbers the market is in territory that is, while not unprecedented, associated with a couple previous rather significant collapses. It's safe to say a recession will happen but difficult to say exactly when.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by onlyrealcuzzo on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:27PM (#21804871)
For the better part of a decade or for the last 3 years?

The country is incredibly divided. About half the country thinks the country is going to shit anytime their party isn't leading. The country usually does go to shit when leadership is divided. And the economy has almost always gone to shit when the yield curve inverts. Combine that with the fact that inequality is at an all time high and a lot of people WANT to see asset prices go to shit, a lot of people want to see this administration go to shit, and you've got a recipe for people predicting and cheerleading recession.

I'm young, so I can hardly speak of 2007 at all, but I think this is a unique circumstance in the amount of people that seem to WANT a recession. Would love to hear from someone older and wiser if this aspect is normal.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by elweston2 on Monday December 16, 2019 @02:34PM (#21806285)
Anyone who can say with certainty what the market is going to do is usually selling you something. Especially, when they trot out a magic number that predicts something. The division you are noticing has been there for a long time (100+ years).

Will there be a recession? Yeah. When, is the trick, it could be tomorrow or 10+ years from now. That recession will also be followed by a boom. Such is life. That we have not had one recently is a bit unusual but not unprecedented. You could even argue the the world is already in the 'coming' recession, minus the US.

I would posit people wanting a recession is just a form of jealously and resentment. Normal? Not in my experience. But then I may have just not noticed. I remember the gas lines of the 70s. No one really wants that just to feel smug, do they?

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by wefarrell on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:04PM (#21804593)
Markets are more predictable over the long term than they are in the short term. This is why it people put their retirement funds in the stock market versus a savings account.

For the past few years many macro indicators (Shiller PE, Market Cap to GDP, etc...) have signaled that returns will not be in line with the recent uptrend. This doesn't mean there will be a crash, it could also signal an extended period of reduced returns.

Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by mrosett on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:13AM (#21804095)
There's not a whole lot of evidence for an impending recession.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by stevehawk on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:49AM (#21804441)
In the US there is a significant downturn in a handful of industries that are the first to decline in a recession. For instance, RV/ camper sales are in a post-boom decline. I'm not saying that means there is an incoming recession as a number of reasons could be at play likethe market simply correcting itself, but things like that tend to be why people think one is impending.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by blackflame on Monday December 16, 2019 @05:51PM (#21808359)
There are many factors such as gas prices that need to be considered as well when it comes to RV sales for example. Maybe people are now able to fly and stay in hotels instead. Maybe more people know that the best days of owning an RV are the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by rootusrootus on Monday December 16, 2019 @11:42AM (#21804360)
Well the yield curve did invert recently. Then reversed.
Re:Travis Kalanick Is Exiting His Uber Holdings Uber Quickly by michalu on Monday December 16, 2019 @12:30PM (#21804903)
Perhaps, but it's never a bad idea to sell high.