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Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by nathancahill on Monday December 09, 2019 @08:41AM (#21742499)
This 100x over. I had a very eye-opening experience as an american living in Mexico for 2 years, while trying to recycle as much as possible. I learned a lot and continue to think about recycling in this context, since it applies globally. Once you're out from under the umbrella of "The Great Recycling Con":

- Recycling companies in Mexico will not accept any material that they can't make a profit on. Only a few numbers of plastic are recyclable/profitable.

- Recycling companies in Mexico enforce sorting and cleanliness before receiving any material. I clean everything, even run it in the dishwasher if there's space. Pizza cardboard is straight out.

- Glass is the hardest the recycle. There's a global glut of used glass. This goes against the normal idea that it's the easiest to recycle because it can be simply melted down. On the other hand, some beverage companies wash and reuse returned bottles. Those are the only bottled beverages I buy now. Buy a case, pay a small deposit, then continuously swap it for full bottles.

- Aluminum is the easiest to recycle and the most profitable. I've switched to buying as much as possible in cans. Especially switching from drinking beer out of bottles because it "tastes better" to buying it in cans and pouring it in a glass.

- Clean cardboard (and paper to a lesser extent) is fairly easy to recycle.

- Companies pay you a small amount for material. It's not a lot but it covers the cost of dropping it off.

These basic economic rules apply in the United States too but it's masked by the con described in this op-ed, temporary recycling subsidies and "wish-cycling" [0]

[0] https://recyclecoach.com/residents/blog/help-put-a-stop-to-w...

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by mumblemumble on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:04AM (#21742687)
> switching from drinking beer out of bottles because it "tastes better"

FWIW, that was never true, anyway. It's just that, once upon a time, cheap beer came in cans and expensive beer came in bottles, so it was hard for consumers to make a decent comparison.

When I was in beer judging class, we did an interesting blind taste test among various beers that are available in both bottles and cans. The cans consistently won. It didn't take too long to notice the pattern, either: At least for beers with a more delicate flavor, the bottled version tends to have a certain subtle hint of soggy cardboard that's absent in the canned version.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by johnmaguire2013 on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:29AM (#21742905)
In the test you described, I presume the beer has been poured into a glass, like the OP states they now do. If you skip this step, drinking out of a can can have a distinctly metallic taste (imagine that), which is why I -- and I imagine many others -- tend to think beer tastes better out of a bottle than a can.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by burfog on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:08PM (#21748953)
Do you happen to have metal in your mouth, such as braces or fillings?

This looks like a situation with dissimilar metals and an electrolyte. You might just have a battery.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by manigandham on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:04PM (#21767732)
Cans are coated on the inside to protect against any interaction between the beverage and the metal.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by johnmaguire2013 on Friday December 13, 2019 @10:47PM (#21787672)
I'm not suggesting that the beverage tastes of metal - I'm suggesting the can does.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by sidpatil on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:38AM (#21742979)
> At least for beers with a more delicate flavor, the bottled version tends to have a certain subtle hint of soggy cardboard that's absent in the canned version.

Canning is generally considered to be a better packaging method for beverages when it comes to flavor preservation, as opposed to bottling. Bottles allow light in, which leads to unwanted flavors developing in the beverage.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by chrisco255 on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:16AM (#21742787)
You can't frost a can of beer but you can frost a glass of beer and it absolutely tastes better and has an effect on enjoyability. But for what its worth, why is it harmful to put glass in the landfill? Glass is made from silica. It's non toxic.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by mumblemumble on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:27AM (#21742896)
I think the real wastefulness of glass probably comes from its manufacture and use much more than its disposal. It takes a lot of energy to make - compared to aluminum, the melting point is very high and you need a relatively large mass of it to make a container. And its extra weight also means that you'll burn a lot more oil in shipping products in glass containers.

A lot of that could be mitigated by finding products that are bottled locally in reusable bottles. I don't know about other countries, but that's become all but illegal in many US jurisdictions.

re: frosting, it really depends on how how you like your beer. If it's an American pale lager like Miller or Budweiser, where the defining feature of the style is that it's meant to have as little flavor as possible, yeah, a frosted glass will help with that. As will a bottle, since bottles are perfect for minimizing your nose's exposure to what you're drinking. If it's an ale that's meant to have a lot of complex flavor and aroma, and you like those things, cellar temperature will bring them out more.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by cellularmitosis on Monday December 09, 2019 @11:52AM (#21744122)
The melting point notion is throwing you off -- manufacturing new aluminum requires way more energy than glass. The reason people will pay you to recycle aluminum is because of the huge differential in (electricity) cost between making new aluminum vs. recycling aluminum. The energy differential between making new steel vs recycling steel is about 2:1. For aluminum, it's 20:1. This is because making aluminum involves first melting bauxite ore, then running a shit-ton of current through it to perform electrolysis.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by namibj on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:34AM (#21742943)
It seems most German beer bottles are reused via a deposit system.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by anticodon on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:13AM (#21742764)
Aren't cans lined with plastic inside? I assume it's almost impossible to recycle the plastic inside the can.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by NullPrefix on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:25AM (#21742872)
AFAIK they melt the cans before reusing, so all the inner plastic is burned.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by rshow on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:31AM (#21742917)
Yes, there's a very minuscule amount of plastic lining the inside of most aluminum and steel cans. It's vaporized or becomes slag when the metal is melted in a furnace.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by pnutjam on Monday December 09, 2019 @10:18AM (#21743311)
I believe that burns off and is easy-ish to deal with in the smelting process.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by burfog on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:22PM (#21749024)
It sure does seem that glass could be put to use. Ignoring food-safe containers and windows, there are still many things that could use it.

Consider bricks, both traditional and in the style of the typical concrete block. These could be glass. There are many options for making them: full melt, sintered, or as aggregate cemented with something else.

Floor tiles ought to work. The result need not be transparent; other ingredients would stop that.

Fiber glass insulation seems like a reasonable use.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by hajile on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:09AM (#21742729)
Fresh water is a rather precious commodity and running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power (even the soaps used are generally not particularly friendly for the environment). A better idea is a 5-gallon bucket of rainwater and an old bottle brush. Recyclables need only have the large dirt removed rather than being germ-free like a dishwasher is designed for.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by nathancahill on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:13AM (#21742758)
I knew I would get called out because I wasn't clear enough. I run the dishwasher about once a week. If there's space in the top for greasy plastic that's going to be recycled I throw it in. The point is, recycling companies just trash everything that isn't clean.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by dsfyu404ed on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:27AM (#21742895)
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by Dirlewanger on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:33AM (#21742939)
Yeah it is..if you're hand washing with the tap on full blast.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by smileysteve on Monday December 09, 2019 @11:28AM (#21743921)
A dishwasher in the normal cycle uses about as much water as an efficient person uses in washing a single large pot without the tap running (reusing this water for washing all dishes is the most efficient way to hand wash)

In addition, a dishwasher has high pressure pumps, a centrifugal grinder, and its own water heater (to heat hotter and more localized than a central water heater, above sanitizing levels)

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by hajile on Monday December 09, 2019 @01:44PM (#21745153)
The assumptions here are wrong because they are based on creating sanitary dishes suitable for human foodstuffs. Recyclables don't need to be sanitary -- just free of large amounts of dirt.

* You don't need rinse water, so the total water needed is at least halved. Since the water is just sitting in a bucket, you can do many, many washings with the same water which increases that efficiency even more.

* You don't need heated water as sanitation and complete cleanliness is unimportant. Heating the water alone uses more energy than everything else put together.

* You don't need particularly clean water, just clean enough to prevent large dirt from adhering. As such you could use floor-cleaning chemicals that clump the dirt and precipitate it to the bottom increasing use time. Reusing water and the chemicals in that water for longer has a very large impact on the environment.

* a couple strokes with a bottle brush take way less energy than a high-pressure pump and once again, get the item clean enough.

* Fewer things going through your dishwasher increases its lifespan and decreases the total cost of operation. This is also better for the environment

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by dsfyu404ed on Monday December 09, 2019 @10:40AM (#21743508)
I bothered to look it up and edited my original comment with citations. TL;DR the dishwasher wins in most cases.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by schaefer on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:32AM (#21742929)
fun fact: In many desert communities of the American Southwest, there are laws prohibiting collection of rain water that falls on your property.

please don't be so quick to judge when the individual's circumstances may be more complex than first assumed.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by hajile on Monday December 09, 2019 @10:33AM (#21743447)
I doubt such laws have EVER seen their day in court vs an individual collecting a few gallons of water for personal use. That would seem to clearly violate constitutional rights to life and liberty.

The only case where they might have any weight would be widespread collection of water to the extent that it had a measurable impact on the community, but this would involve large quantities of water and would almost certainly involve business interests rather than personal ones.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by schaefer on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @01:02PM (#21754894)
Here's contact info for 20 water rights lawyers serving my hometown of Las Vegas, NV [1]. To be blunt, you are underestimating the complexities of water rights law.

[1]: https://attorneys.lawinfo.com/water-rights/nevada/las-vegas/

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by lotsofpulp on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:14AM (#21742774)
Aside from aluminum, I really doubt it’s worth all the effort to recycle, especially because most people can’t be trusted to sort and clean properly, and most facilities won’t make a profit paying for the labor to do it.

Reducing consumption is the only answer, and further down is reusing. But recycling is so inefficient, I assume it has mostly been for political points, and conveniently, we had tons of containers going back empty to China.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by me_me_me on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:17AM (#21742807)
> if there's space

I think they meant that they do it then they do dishes and have space for cleaning trash. In that case there is nothing wasteful in it.

Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by Spooky23 on Monday December 09, 2019 @09:24AM (#21742866)
If you're washing your dishes anyway, there's no marginal harm.
Re:The Great Recycling Con [video] by duelingjello on Monday December 09, 2019 @02:48PM (#21745757)
When I was a Boy Scout, I probably hauled and schlepped 3 imperial tons of newspaper for recycling before San Jose implemented their first program with those diamond-patterned yellow, olive and green recycling plastic crates (about 48" x 36" x 24" / 1.5m x 1m x 0.75m).