The point is not that privacy is dead. The point is that we are all already carrying around a surveillance device by choice, and so complaining about one more substantially less intrusive one is silly. If you're actually serious about these privacy issues, you should start by getting rid of your smartphone, not complaining about Nest and Alexa.

It's absolutely possible to use a smartphone in a way that doesn't severely compromise your privacy. This isn't true of Nest or Alexa.

How is that possible? As best as I can tell, your location is tracked at all times, the OS has telemetry built-in, and lots of telemetry data is going out with every app. Also how do you audit it?

I'm sure my phone is leaking way more data than an Alexa.

There are options. Personally I run Graphene OS on a Pixel 3a. I have no proprietary software (with exception to binary firmware blobs for the modem and other low-level components) installed on my device. All apps are sourced from F-Droid. I've measured very low telemetry data from my device.

Isn't your phone connecting to the nearest cell towers at all times?

I keep my phone at home all the time, and only turn it on for online banking and app development

If you are not a famous person probably. If the are a target of a government or invested body. It doesn’t matter, they have a depth of zero days they can use.

But most people aren’t famous, so who cares?

> one more substantially less intrusive

wow! this needs proof and evidence. you can't just pull this out of nowhere?

afaik it's becoming harder & harder to get data out of your phone without you unlocking them. now, if you choose to share your private information on said phone, that's another discussion.

i want to think that movement tracking and giving away private information about you -- and perhaps not-knowingly about people around you -- are different things!

I can throw my iPhone in a drawer in another room. I can't avoid fifty neighbors' Rings while walking down the street.

I'm pretty sure there is no reasonable expectation of privacy while "walking down the street" anyway?

There's a substantial difference between:

- I walk down the street and everybody can see me.

And

- I walk down the street and my moves are recorded and stored forever in some db which may be abused or leak.

The chances of that piece of information coming back to hurt you in the course of the next decades are so much higher.

This is really disingenuous. I'm not arguing "privacy is dead" or "nothing to hide". I'm arguing for understanding how to have privacy when and if you want it, and how to hide things you might not want associated with your public persona.

I believe that privacy can co-exist in your life with listening devices (though maybe not in the same room, if you're concerned about your voice being recorded).

>>> Your phone can do all the same things as those devices, and it's a better target for attackers because it's always on you.

>> "privacy is dead"

>>> In reality, bugging my residence isn't going to result in very interesting data.

>> "nothing to hide"

> I'm not arguing "privacy is dead" or "nothing to hide".

Really?

You don't have to have a phone on you all the time. But if you do, it should be considered bugged because you have no way to audit it.

Also, bugging my residence isn't going to result in very interesting data by design. I could have plenty to hide, but I'm not reading my evil plans for world domination aloud.

If you do need to talk about something private, nobody is preventing you from disconnecting all the microphones.

Know what you're trying to prevent, then take actionable steps. Privacy is hard, but not dead.

Most privacy advocates don't defend it because it allows you to scheme against the government, they do it because it protects people from falling too deep in the net of actors that would try to influence their behaviour.

I agree that you're most likely not doing anything interesting in the eyes of the authorities in your home, most people aren't. But advertisers and content creators definitely care, and that's where the true problem is. They shouldn't have the power to anonymously collect all of this data, and then decide through the power of their far-reaching services which products are accessible to you or not, what information is presented to you through means that appear transparent, and so on and so on.

The "I have nothing to hide" argument has never been what today's privacy debate was about.