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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by the_gastropod on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:00PM (#21599557)
I hear what you're saying, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong. And at the risk of sounding like a partisan, I really don't think the two "sides" in U.S. politics are at all equivalent. There is one party that cares about "winning" at any cost. They absolutely justify this by, as you say, painting the other party—and those in their own party that don't toe the line—as "the enemy". It is terrifying, and I don't know how this gets resolved.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by fingerlocks on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:12PM (#21599675)
I’m not trying to be glib when I say this, but I really don’t know which side you’re referring to. I’ve witnessed an equal amount of tribalism from supporters of both sides.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by notJim on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:05PM (#21600225)
I think it's the party engaging in voter suppression throughout the country, and the one that stripped the powers of the governor when someone from the other side won, and the one that literally fled the state so that the legislature didn't have quorum and couldn't pass legislation, even though they were a clear minority. Or the one that refused to confirm a seat on the supreme court for nearly a year, in an unprecedented move. I could go on.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by gred on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:25PM (#21601637)
I think GP has a point, and I'll illustrate by trying to simply flip the very convenient mirror that you've set up. Please get past the initial emotional response (canards! blasphemy!) and just realize that this is a paragraph that roughly half the country will read with a straight face and agree with.

"I think it's the party engaging in voter fraud [1] throughout the country, and the one that tried to impeach the president when someone from the other side won [2], and the one that literally fled the state so that the legislature didn't have quorum and couldn't pass legislation [3], even though they were a clear minority. Or the one that falsely accused a supreme court nominee of rape [4], in an unprecedented move. I could go on."

It's evident to me that people of all political bents in this country are extremely tribalistic, and none of the tribes count many saints among their numbers.

Citations added simply to highlight that I'm not pulling any of this out of thin air:

[1] https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/impeac...

[3] https://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawm...

[4] https://reason.com/2018/11/05/brett-kavanaugh-due-process-fa...

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by Verdex on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:48PM (#21600052)
Hear, hear.

I almost said exactly the same thing you just did. I have absolutely no clue which "side" he's talking about.

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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by malvosenior on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:51PM (#21601075)
The Democrats are equally corrupt, they just have more control over the media that gets shipped overseas so it warps people's perception.

Both parties have started and engaged in needless wars, both parties spread falsehoods and start witch hunts, both parties are corrupt and suck down tax payer dollars without providing value in return.

Do you really think not a single Republican has critical thinking skills? That of course is incorrect, just as the opposite statement about Democrats would be.

That's not even touching hot button issues that are legitimately subjective or at least have no clear answer (like abortion).

It's best not to dehumanize those you don't agree with and instead realize that organizations as large and powerful as the DNC/GOP are almost inherently corrupt.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by caconym_ on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:08PM (#21601180)
> Do you really think not a single Republican has critical thinking skills? That of course is incorrect, just as the opposite statement about Democrats would be.

Seems like that's not at all what he said. He said you'd have to lack critical thinking ability to equate the two parties.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by malvosenior on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:12PM (#21601201)
You're leaving off this part:

> The Republicans are blatantly criminal and far far more obstructive and disruptive.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by caconym_ on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:41PM (#21601370)
Lots of criminals have great critical thinking skills. Obstruction and disruption are strategies that might be employed by people with great critical thinking skills to achieve their goals.

Ironically, perhaps, I think you've misread his comment, and mine, and overextended your own argument.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by malvosenior on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:01PM (#21601488)
Semantics aside, you're missing the point of my post which is that neither party can claim moral superiority and believing that doesn't mean one is lacking critical thinking skills. They are indeed equivalent from that perspective.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by caconym_ on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:16PM (#21601584)
I'm not missing anything at all. I commented solely to make the observation that you put words in the mouth of the commenter you originally replied to, which is way beyond semantics.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by malvosenior on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:20PM (#21601606)
I strongly disagree, but I don't think there's a point in discussing this further.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by hderms on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:02PM (#21601809)
How do you explain the "party line" dynamic with the Republicans if Democrats are similarly politically cynical. Regardless of media slant it's clear that Republican policy marches in lockstep, with very clear talking points. How can that be explained except being a naked power grab?
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:33PM (#21600476)
Obstructive and disruptive are intensely subjective labels. Anyone who doesn't get what they want can say "oh, I should've gotten it, but I was disrupted and obstructed and that was very unfair". As an American, Brexit really drove this point home for me; the two largest British parties have both been insisting for years now that they're trying to drive Brexit forwards but the other side is unfairly obstructing them.

"Criminal" is less subjective, but I just don't think it's true. I'm unaware of any kind of criminal behavior that Republicans get accused of but Democrats don't.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by jjoonathan on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:12PM (#21600782)
I'll bite.

Nixon telling South Vietnam he would give them a better deal if they dragged their feet during a peace negotiation with his political rival.

Trump withholding military aid from Ukraine unless they made a public statement about an investigation into his political rival.

What are the comparable accusations against the Democrats?

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by deogeo on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:48PM (#21601036)
Biden and Kerry's kids got $1 billion of Chinese investment right after their parents' diplomatic mission to China: https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equit...
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by the_gastropod on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:29PM (#21601289)
False. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/oct/02...

As a rule of thumb: if your source is New York Post, you should try looking elsewhere.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by droithomme on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:54AM (#21607367)
That's by Peter Schweizer talking about his amazing book "Secret Empires" that came out in 2017. The book documents corruption on both the left and the right and has over 100 pages of citations.

It documents far beyond any doubt massive corruption and treason.

The Chinese deal was having Kerry approve a deal where China got access to restricted US military technology.

Articles documenting the Biden kid's shady "equity fund", which is partially owned by the Chinese government, have been ongoing for many years in a variety of media. They were particularly popular in 2015-16 when the media was trashing the Bidens because they wanted Hillary to get the nomination.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by deogeo on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:52PM (#21601762)
> Mesires said that, in any case, the $1.5 billion amount was never reached. The investment fund raised about $4.2 million "from various sources," Mesires said, without citing further detail. That would be a fraction of what Trump said: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/oct/02...

> The company website in 2016 reported that Bohai Capital managed the 20 Billion RMB ($2.8 billion) fund. [..] business registration filings in China list Hunter Biden and James Bulger as key officials at Bohai Harvest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHR_Partners

So he is a 'key official' at a fund with billions of dollars of Chinese investment. But you find that claim 'false' because his lawyer states that they only raised $4.2 million, during some unspecified period of time, from unspecified sources, and explicitly declined to give any details. Being a lawyer, I'm sure his statement is technically correct. Given all the other sources, I'm also sure it's utterly misleading.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by jakeogh on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:15PM (#21601865)
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:36PM (#21600945)
Ted Kennedy asked the Soviets to help him defeat Reagan, explaining that Soviet-American relations would be critically important in the 1984 election and offering to fly to Moscow to help with their messaging. (Of course, like with Nixon and Trump, many people do dispute this characterization and Kennedy claimed the entire story was made up.)
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by jjoonathan on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:49PM (#21601743)
That's the first time I've gotten a real answer to this question!

Of course, the available information allows one to believe, not believe, or assign significantly differing severity to these, and I do, but I wasn't aware of this before, so thanks.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by manofstick on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:13PM (#21601856)
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:44PM (#21601975)
See, this is the kind of response that makes people not trust Politifact. This article delivers a more detailed version of exactly what I said. There's direct evidence indicating Kennedy reached out to the KGB, and indirect evidence it was tied to his political ambitions, but there's no ironclad proof and some people believe the evidence was just a complete fabrication. The "false" rating is based entirely on the specific claim that Kennedy sat down for a meeting with them, which I think you'll find I did not make.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by jjoonathan on Friday November 22, 2019 @09:37PM (#21612058)
Just to be clear, you're saying manofstick's response is at fault here, and that an undiscriminating reader might blame Politifact by association, not that Politifact did wrong here, correct?

Manofstick incorrectly suggested that the Politifact article applied to your post, but it looks to me like Politifact itself did an exemplary job. They evaluated the specific claim that a meeting happened, which was made by a conservative pundit, and found it false, which is consistent with the evidence they present and all other evidence I found in my brief poke through google.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by BurningFrog on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:53PM (#21601449)
> The Republicans are blatantly criminal [...] This really doesn't seem like it should be a controversial statement to me.

That party has ~100 million voters/sympathizers in this country.

Surely you can see that it would be controversial among them?

If you hang out in online forums, for either side, it can be eerie how they both describe the other side like you just described Republicans.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by fingerlocks on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:17PM (#21600824)
I've made no claims of equivalence between the two parties.

The topic we are discussing is moral grandstanding on social media. The comment I replied to suggested that only one "side" is guilty of this behavior. I'm interpreting a "side" as the supporters of particular party and their actions on social media, and not the policies and actions of the party's politicians. I believe there are people on both sides of the spectrum that routinely cringe at the behavior of those they agree with. There are many staunch Republicans that wish to distance themselves from the social policies of their constituents. Likewise, there are Democrats that are unfairly given stigmatizing labels from their peers for having fiscally conservative views. Both "sides" are guilty of tribal tendencies, ignoring any possibility of nuance, and pigeon-holing "centrists" into Team Red or Blue. And I'm not distancing myself to relish in my own smug either, I've been guilty of this as well.

Just like with football, neither side likes the guy that supports both teams when it's convenient.

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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:40PM (#21601702)
Neither. Both sides can be equally tribal without both sides being equally right.

But as for you, you seem to be playing language lawyer with the GP's words, to try to find a sliver of a way to accuse him/her of lying. Why?

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bena on Friday November 22, 2019 @09:55AM (#21606052)
He literally made an equivocation then said he wasn't trying to make an equivocation. I don't know how that's not immediately obvious.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by riversflow on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:46PM (#21600575)
You should looks at Democratic strongholds if you think they are somehow better. As a Californian I’ll say the level of corruption/cronyism in our state is insane relative to that seen in others. We literally got conned into giving Nancy Pelosi’s family a huge ($50B+) contract with our high speed rail bill, that isn’t going to be what we voted on at all[1]. Democrats and Republicans are 2 sides of the same coin. This is very apparent with the rise of Anti-Trumpism.

See https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/apollo-15-astronaut-anti-tru...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail#Leg...

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by gamblor956 on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:41PM (#21601381)
Neither of your cites supports the claim that corruption or cronyism in California is worse than it is in other states.

Your Wiki citation doesn't mention any link of a connection between Pelosi and the HSR, nor does a Google or DDG search turn up any mention, outside of anonymous blog posts all citing each other.

The genesis of Anti-Trumpism was the Nopublicans. It was the official party line of the GOP during the Obama era to simply vote "no" on everything he tried to pass, even when he was trying to implement GOP policies, because they wanted to (a) make him a 1-term president, and (b) when that failed to limit his successes. In contrast, the Democrats actually worked with Bush and Bush Sr before him on domestic and foreign policy, and have worked with their GOP counterparts on such during Trump's presidency.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by riversflow on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:42PM (#21601966)
Yeah, I got it wrong, it’s Dianne Feinstein not Pelosi, and furthermore it seems that on-the-books financial ties had been broken, but that sure stinks. Furthermore, I’ve had first hand experience with corruption in this state, and I know many other who have. I find it difficult to believe that most states are worse. Oregon seems far more together from what I understand about their politics, for an example of another Democratic state.

My friend, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I admire(d) Democrats for their pragmatism and I loathe Republicans for their lack of it. I’m not defending Republicans or Conservatives, only pointing out that what we need is fresh blood.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zaque1213 on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:09PM (#21599649)
It appears you have given a perfect illustration of the comment you are replying to.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by nathan_compton on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:23PM (#21599787)
I think the gastropod is basically on point. The democrats aren't beacons of virtue or rationality by any stretch of the imagination, but its a strange kind of self-imposed blindness to pretend the two political parties are playing the same game here.

We can simultaneously see that partisan politics isn't completely rational and also observe that one side, for various reasons, is working that irrationality harder than the other.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:34PM (#21599907)
The question isn't whether they're playing the same game. Indeed, it'd be surprising if they were, since the goals and principles of the two parties are often quite different. The question is whether "aha, that other party has decided to do the wrong thing rather than the right thing" is a helpful way to conceptualize the difference.

As another reply to you has shown, it's very easy to find specific differences and elevate them to an all-encompassing explanation, if that's how you decide you want to look at things.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by insickness on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:30PM (#21599869)
A study at Dartmouth found that 45 percent of Democrats say they would be uncomfortable rooming with a Republican. Comparatively, only 12 percent of Republicans said rooming with a Democrat would make them uncomfortable.

My anecdotal evidence bears this out. Progressives tend to be far more intolerant of opposing viewpoints than conservatives.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/majority-of-democrats-at-...

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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zdragnar on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:58PM (#21601470)
Historically, the "conservatives" (if you're referring to the Republican party) was actually more tolerant. The abolitionist movement to end slavery, for one, and republicans supported the civil rights act more than the democrats did:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_...

Yes, in all votes, by percentage, more democrats opposed the civil rights act than did republicans.

Earlier, the progressive movement was founded on, among other things, eugenics (sterilization and abortion) of undesirable people, such as minorities and disabled. The progressive movement has since changed its tune.

Minority groups clearly aren't using history to pick roommates they would feel comfortable with.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bobbydroptables on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:10PM (#21601549)
>Yes, in all votes, by percentage, more democrats opposed the civil rights act than did republicans.

Yes I'm sure that's why all those Democrats are upset at tearing down Confederate/traitor statues...

Definitely the same party.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zdragnar on Thursday November 21, 2019 @10:56PM (#21602286)
In fact, it is the same party, but different people.

I was responding to the idea that minorities were using history to choose their roommates, and how if that were the case, it would not be so clear cut.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bobbydroptables on Friday November 22, 2019 @08:12AM (#21605226)
It is clear cut though. What we call the Democratic party today used to be called the Republican party. It has zero connection to today's Republicans.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zdragnar on Friday November 22, 2019 @01:46PM (#21608624)
That is certainly not true in many regards. See for example my sibling comment on progressivism and eugenics.

The Progressive party had followers in its own right, as well as those in both the Democratic and Republican party, at least until Theodore Roosevelt left the Republican party in 1912.

Among the progressive movements goals were getting women the right to vote, and disenfranchising black voters. The philosophies of eugenics, and obsession with purity, were in fact an inspiration for those people who would eventually attempt to purify Germany during the Nazi reign.

Although much has changed in the progressive movement in the years since, the application of eugenics through abortion to eliminate undesirables has not (from my other comment, see Iceland).

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by c0nducktr on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:16PM (#21601588)
Cough Cough Southern Strategy
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zdragnar on Thursday November 21, 2019 @10:54PM (#21602278)
Also a part of history, and a disappointing one at that. It does not, however, change my point about history being a poor way to choose one's roommates.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by the_gastropod on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:13PM (#21601563)
I specifically stated “conservative” because that’s more meaningful across large periods of time than referring to political parties. Yes, the Republican Party was once the more progressive party. That changed, and for ~50 years, Republicans have been the more conservative party.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zdragnar on Thursday November 21, 2019 @10:51PM (#21602266)
> Republican Party was once the more progressive party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

> As a philosophy, it is based on the idea of progress, which asserts that advancements in science, technology, economic development and social organization are vital to the improvement of the human condition.

That is pretty much the antithesis of conservative, to be sure. However, keep in mind that none of that could have described the Republican party of old. The abolitionist movement and civil rights movement had a lot of support from conservatives for religious reasons. Martin Luther King Jr's message of unity was heard on multiple levels.

That definition of progressivism does still tie fairly closely to what a lot of Democrats would identify with, I think. Unfortunately, eugenics is still alive and well within the progressive movement- consider, for example, Iceland's attempt at eradicating Down's Syndrom by aborting babies. If you were to ask most people with Down's syndrom whether their condition would have been improved had they been aborted, they would disagree.

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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by Mountain_Skies on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:49PM (#21601056)
Maybe I'm older than you but Democrats have held many of those positions for a good portion of my life. They just generally don't hold them now though a sizable minority still do have at least a couple of those views.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by the_gastropod on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:38PM (#21601351)
Yes, even Barack Obama was against gay marriage. We've come a long way. But since ~1968, the Democratic party has consistently lead the Republican party on social issues.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bart_spoon on Thursday November 21, 2019 @09:16PM (#21601868)
Except there is still a double standard. For example, approximately the same number of black people are opposed to gay marriage as Republicans (52% vs 49%)[1], and yet only one of those groups gets consistently portrayed as homophobic and detestable.

[1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/support-for-same-sex-ma...

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by the_gastropod on Thursday November 21, 2019 @11:40PM (#21602539)
Being a Republican is a choice. Being black is not.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bart_spoon on Tuesday November 26, 2019 @02:47PM (#21641932)
Being in favor of gay marriage is a choice though
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:27PM (#21600415)
If you're curious, there are lots of people who've written at length about why they hang out with and indeed support Republicans despite being in those categories. Peter Thiel and Marco Rubio would be two prominent examples if you're looking for recommendations.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by stouset on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:58PM (#21601787)
I would find it uncomfortable being a roomate with an outspoken holocaust denier. A holocaust denier probably wouldn't find it uncomfortable being my roommate. I would wager this generalizes pretty well to holocaust accepters and deniers as a whole.

Is the takeaway from this that holocaust deniers are more accepting people?

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Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by UnpossibleJim on Thursday November 21, 2019 @07:41PM (#21601379)
Seriously, if people keep calling everyone a Nazi, the term and horror of what they did and the crimes they perpetrated will be lost to a fairy tale, if it hasn't been already. Stop it. Choose your words more carefully and pick a different School yard insult to call people. That's shameful. The actuality of what Nazis did is horrific. Don't cheapen it in less than a century.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by bobbydroptables on Thursday November 21, 2019 @08:08PM (#21601534)
I don't think I called anyone a Nazi. Why don't you stop making up things that people didn't say. Let me know when you're ready to get there and we'll try this again.

Also, instead of whining, consider critiquing the substance of anything I said.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by BurningFrog on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:28PM (#21600425)
The thing about tribalism is that all tribes think this about the "other" tribe.

This is hardcoded in us.

Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by golergka on Thursday November 21, 2019 @04:50PM (#21600083)
There's only one political party in the US right now that routinely uses labels such as "racists", "Nazis" and "white supremacists" against their opponents to dehumanize them and justify physical violence. Haven't seen anything like it from the other side.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by zapita on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:06PM (#21600230)
Does it bother you that the same could have been said in defense of the actual Nazi party?
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by golergka on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:11PM (#21600272)
No, because 99% of the time these labels have no basis in reality and those who use these labels don't bother to even try to prove these accusations. They became just fighting words for dehumanization, used without a second thought.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday November 21, 2019 @05:16PM (#21600324)
I don't think it could have been said. The Nazis were, from the start, clearly and enthusiastically in favor of violence against their political opponents. Their first attempt at a violent coup happened only a couple years after they were founded.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by Mountain_Skies on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:55PM (#21601105)
They didn't go as far as Antifa does but the TEA Party certainly was guilty of many of the same things. Lots of threats to bring "Second amendment solutions" to political disagreements. They certainly engaged in dehumanizing their opponents. Seems like whoever is out of power does this and each cycle it gets ratcheted up another notch. It's worrying what the reaction in some quarters might be if someone like Bernie Sanders, who openly calls himself a Democratic Socialist, wins the presidency.
Re:Study of “moral grandstanding” helps explain why social m... by tenebrisalietum on Thursday November 21, 2019 @06:26PM (#21600887)
Both parties care, but one side wants government to do less or not interfere with things, and the other side wants government to do more or redistribute things. One side has an interest in government functioning properly and the other doesn't (until they need Medicare anyway). I think this contributes to the "win at any cost" appearance of the one side.