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Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by jcranberry on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:09AM (#21524943)
To be fair, I doubt most people, even developers, use the function keys enough to touch type with them.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:28AM (#21525167)
By "touch type", do you mean "without taking your hands off the home-row" or "without looking down?"

I can't do the former, but I can absolutely do the latter. I can change the volume and brightness without looking down, and do so all the time.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I don't think I am—it's not that hard to learn by feel which keys are towards the opposite ends of the top row.

What I can't do without looking is access the middle keys, namely F4–F9. If Apple wanted to put a touch-bar there, I'd find that perfectly acceptable—I wouldn't consider it a downgrade, at least. The bar would be pretty small by that point though.

Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by aidenn0 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @11:15AM (#21525774)
Desktop keyboards often have the function keys in groups of 4, making touch typing all of them easy.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by jcranberry on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:43AM (#21525334)
The latter. Maybe it's not that hard to learn but I suppose I've never really felt inclined to try and touch type since hitting the wrong function key can have a higher "cost" than just typing a wrong letter. Bringing up a help dialog, going full screen, developer console, etc.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by Wowfunhappy on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:07AM (#21535411)
fwiw, this isn't something I've consciously "learned", just something I've discovered I can do over time.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by beerandt on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:52AM (#21525479)
Big difference: I can rest my finger on a fn key while looking at the screen, and not need to look down before pressing it. Not possible with the current implementation of touch screens / bars.

The biggest thing I miss about tactile keyboards (on a phone, anyway) is the no-look interaction without necessitating input. Maybe tactile navigation is the term. RIP HTC Tilt2.

Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by delecti on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:23AM (#21525115)
On keyboards that divide them into groups of 4 (Esc, F1-4, F5-8) I absolutely do. My work laptop has that.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by jcranberry on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:41AM (#21525312)
That's a good point. But I suppose this post is mostly about laptops and laptop keyboards don't typically have those groupings.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by scotth on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:44AM (#21525358)
I can do it. Show desktop, brightness, media keys, debugging keys. My fingers know them.

I went with a 13" Air this time around. I still have physical function keys, and the fingerprint reader which I like.

Unfortunately, I'm still subject to the quality problems. I'm four months post-purchase, two weeks out of my first keyboard repair(!), and my caps lock and Q keys are already starting to go. :(

Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by gowld on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:15PM (#21527393)
Outside of Apple world of "aesthetics over usability", Function keys are grouped spacing so you can easily find the one you need by touch. Ironically, Apple's TouchBar is less touch-friendly than a traditional keyboard.

https://www.google.com/search?q=keyboard&tbm=isch

Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by thedaemon on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:41AM (#21525317)
To be fair, everyone who took computer typing should have the entire keyboard memorized. I know I can touch type a full keyboard and even use shift+keys as touch typing. You are projecting your own lack of keyboard knowledge.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by jcranberry on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @10:49AM (#21525431)
I touch type everything but the function keys, including using shift, alt, and control.

I'm sure the lack of a touchbar is very annoying to people who have taken such a class but I'm skeptical that most people, or even a significant portion of developers, have taken computer typing.

Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by defined on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:27PM (#21526774)
Been developing for 35+ years, they didn’t teach touch typing back then so I never learned. Just some anecdata.
Re:16-inch MacBook Pro by thedaemon on Friday November 15, 2019 @06:11PM (#21549680)
If you've been developing for 35+ years and you still have to look at the keyboard.... you teach yourself touch typing. Unless touch typing means something other than "not looking at the keyboard before you press the keys"?