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Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by DaiPlusPlus on Friday November 08, 2019 @05:25PM (#21487562)
Apple will probably have to.

* I understand the prviate API was about reducing power-consumption.

* Apple sells itself on superior battery-life compared to Windows laptops.

* Unfortunately, the Electron ecosystem is too big to dismiss - there's a lot of software using it that could potentially pull customers away from Apple's App Store if they weren't allowed back-in.

* Despite the fact most of those apps are nominally free (Slack, Skype, etc), if they weren't available in the Mac App Store it would mean users would stop seeing the Mac App Store as the place to go for Mac software - thus damaging the brand.

In short: if Apple doesn't document this power-management API and make it public then significantly fewer _important_ apps will be available in their Store which is bad for Apple's current long-term vision. If these apps do modify themseles to not use the battery-life API then they'll reduce the computer's battery life which then makes Apple look bad.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by dwaite on Friday November 08, 2019 @05:36PM (#21487657)
It isn't a power management API. AFAIK Chrome is bridging in its cross-platform rendering at a late stage into CALayer, and the internal functions override CoreAnimation's handling of redrawing dirty layers.

Similarly, it is using internal functions to map mach ports onto file descriptors because their cross-platform bits do not understand mach ports.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by st3fan on Friday November 08, 2019 @05:50PM (#21487744)
Let’s be clear: they are important APIs that would allow non-Safari (WKWebView based really) browsers be competitive on macOS.
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by jsjohnst on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:16PM (#21487933)
If GP is correct, that’s not the case. They are important APIs for someone who wants to maintain their cross-platform abstraction layer without muddying up their codebase.
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by threeseed on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:18PM (#21487948)
This comment makes no sense to me.

How are Firefox and Chrome not competitive given that Safari isn't the overwhelmingly dominant browser ?

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by st3fan on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:42PM (#21488152)
They are now because they both use those APIs. You can read about the impact of this specific one here:

https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...

Before using those private APIs, with no other options to reach the same performance as Safari, both Chrome and Firefox were in a completely different league.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by threeseed on Friday November 08, 2019 @08:03PM (#21488725)
It is ridiculous to say that Chrome/Firefox are only popular now because they use private APIs.

Your own article says that Firefox only recently started using them.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by jolux on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:26PM (#21488483)
CALayer and IOSurface are not private...
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by Null-Set on Friday November 08, 2019 @08:03PM (#21488729)
CALayerHost and CAContext were listed in the offending apis in this rejection of an electron app https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/20027
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by kalleboo on Friday November 08, 2019 @11:06PM (#21489520)
Firefox does not use CALayerHost. It uses the public IOSurface and CALayer.contents APIs.

https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/11/04/electron-apps-rejected-fr...

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by jolux on Friday November 08, 2019 @08:20PM (#21488829)
Are those mentioned in the Mozilla post?
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by yoz-y on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:33PM (#21488076)
“On macOS” is the important part. Safari is by far the most battery friendly browser there and quite possibly has significant market share too. Mozilla has recently managed to reduce their consumption significantly using these APIs: https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by darklion on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:24PM (#21487999)
Which Apple may keep private for any number of reasons, none of which have to do with hobbling competitors, nor is it proven that Safari uses these particular APIs to gain a performance advantage for itself in any way whatsoever.

So you’re basically just talking out your ass, saying that Apple should open up APIs that have always been private for the sole purpose of helping a competitor who knowingly adopted them in violation of platform rules.

“Yes, officer, I broke the law. But I think, now that I’ve broken it, you should just abolish the particular laws that I broke because some people think I’m a big deal.”

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by coldtea on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:04PM (#21488347)
> Unfortunately, the Electron ecosystem is too big to dismiss - there's a lot of software using it that could potentially pull customers away from Apple's App Store if they weren't allowed back-in.*

Spotify and co will care more of getting into that 30% of the mobile market (and the more lucrative 30% at that) by doing whatever they can, than Apple would worry about them leaving because no Electron is allowed...

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by michaelmrose on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:56PM (#21488689)
Electron is a tool for the desktop/laptop market where apple has a smaller share yet. It's more like 10%. It's also a market where people are used to manually installing apps.

The worst case scenario is that apple loses some revenue and major players avoid the mac app store for desktop apps.

Apple who gets most of their money from mobile will not care. App developers will lose some convenience but negligible money and they wont care.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by DaiPlusPlus on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:59PM (#21488705)
Even so, there is a halo-effect - and customers’ expectations to meet.
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by cglace on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:22PM (#21488461)
This isn’t about the mobile market...
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by coldtea on Saturday November 09, 2019 @11:20AM (#21492358)
The apps mentioned (Spotify, Slack) are also available on the mobile market.

Since they need to have them there, and don't use Electron there already, they can have them in macOS without it trivially.

Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by brodyprice on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:29PM (#21488501)
Mobile market? Electron is a framework for desktop apps...
Re:Apple has made it difficult to use web-based technology o... by tekknik on Sunday November 10, 2019 @10:39AM (#21498369)
> Unfortunately, the Electron ecosystem is too big to dismiss - there's a lot of software using it that could potentially pull customers away from Apple's App Store if they weren't allowed back-in.

I personally don’t care. In fact I grow tired of the throw everything in a webview cause we’re lazy mentality. Build a proper app that looks like it’s a mac app. Also I grow tired of the crap performance these “apps” have. I say remove the lot of them and force people to build a proper app. Electron is Flash 2.0