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Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by commandlinefan on Friday November 08, 2019 @01:42PM (#21485346)
> It really is inevitable.

Has there ever been an instance of a CoC being used in a reasonable way against an actually unreasonable person? From the history, it appears that CoC’s were designed to stop Linus Torvalds, specifically, but he’s still around (but he does seem to be afraid of CoC enforcers now).

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by mfer on Friday November 08, 2019 @01:48PM (#21485407)
> Has there ever been an instance of a CoC being used in a reasonable way against an actually unreasonable person?

Yes. Though, most CoC violations are handled privately for those involved so we don't hear much about them.

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by quantummkv on Friday November 08, 2019 @02:27PM (#21485802)
> Yes. Though, most CoC violations are handled privately

That really sounds like abuse of power with extra steps. Either ALL of these violations should be private or NONE of them should be. Selectively enforcing something like this is just bias and vendetta politics

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by young_unixer on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:36PM (#21488105)
I think that a reasonable code would allow the punished party to publicly disclose their punishment, otherwise the punishers (for lack of a better term) would do whatever they wanted. But it should be private by default.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by type0 on Saturday November 09, 2019 @08:25AM (#21491387)
So maybe the expected outcome is merging of HR-SJW positions and NDA-CoC so that "everyone" can feel safe
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by PeterisP on Friday November 08, 2019 @09:09PM (#21489079)
I believe that many CoC violations would include private events which the victim would like to keep private. After all, there's a good reason why we don't make all the police reports about harassment public.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by syshum on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:51PM (#21488648)
Sure but in those situations most like the CoC's like we are talking about (things like the contributor covenant) would not be need to remove the person that was abusive

I have been a part of many projects with out these types of CoC's where people have been removed from the project because they were an asshole, or the project is forked and the assholes are left behind

Historically that was the way of open source.

Today however it is much different... Politics and Social Status seem to matter more than Code, merit, and reality

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by goatinaboat on Friday November 08, 2019 @02:00PM (#21485502)
Yes.

[citation needed]

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by mfer on Friday November 08, 2019 @02:08PM (#21485593)
Part of a typical process is that these things are handled privately. Only the rare exceptions go public. That means those that know or can reference cases cannot share this detail. I would provide a citation if I could but I respect the privacy of the process so I can't.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by DuskStar on Friday November 08, 2019 @02:13PM (#21485667)
The problem with this is it's the same argument that gets used to justify things like the Patriot Act. "The only times you see us use this power is in horrible ways, but we assure you, most of the time we use it for good reasons! We just can't tell you about it, because CLASSIFIED". In short, it's an argument that only works if you already trust the person making the argument.

IMO that shouldn't fly with the Patriot Act, and it shouldn't fly here either.

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by djsumdog on Saturday November 09, 2019 @01:11AM (#21489939)
I remember watching randyben get banned from Kiwicon one year. It was very public. They said his talk violated the CoC without specifically mentioned which part and how. It was very public, announced in front of the whole conference.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by lliamander on Friday November 08, 2019 @02:46PM (#21485983)
Shouldn't the ones handled publicly be handled with greater care given the scrutiny?
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by specialist on Saturday November 09, 2019 @12:35PM (#21492836)
Absolutely.

I served on the exec board of a non profit org that used our CoC to adjudicate behavior (sexual predator, harassment, etc) that was not covered by our bylaws.

One big difference, why our CoC proved useful, was we had a trial. Plaintiff, defendant, evidence, testimony, jury, deliberation. All of it.

It was a lot of work. And EXTREMELY painful. But it worked. A popular leader had a day in court. And our org emerged stronger for it.

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by bbanyc on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:30PM (#21488049)
I'd turn it around. Has there ever been an instance of a CoC being used in an unreasonable way against an actually reasonable person? There's been a few cases that blew up because the behavior fell into an arguably ambiguous zone, but I can't think of anyone who suffered real consequences and didn't have it coming. Just a little more tact and thoughtfulness on the offender's part would have saved a world of trouble.

Now I'm of two minds on this. I do sometimes miss the more freewheeling culture of the '00s, and feel like the need for constant compliance has drained the tech scene of some life... but honestly it's a small price to pay if the only alternative is tolerating fascists in your midst.

Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by sincerely on Friday November 08, 2019 @06:52PM (#21488236)
>Has there ever been an instance of a CoC being used in an unreasonable way against an actually reasonable person?

Said instance is the only reason this thread exists, no?

[dead]
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by curryst on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:15PM (#21488426)
I would disagree. I'm not a Republican myself, but it doesn't seem any different than wearing a Bernie hat or T shirt. He is expressing his political beliefs. You may find them offensive, and he may likewise find your views offensive, but I doubt either of you are doing so with the intent to offend.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by rainyMammoth on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:57PM (#21488695)
How is a wearing a MAGA hat a CoC violation? This is so blatantly political that it's ridiculous. So 50% of the US (republicans) are in violation of the CoC. Echo chamber much ?
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by voldacar on Friday November 08, 2019 @11:17PM (#21489558)
In your universe, what politicians are people allowed to support?
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by shpongled on Saturday November 09, 2019 @10:10AM (#21491932)
Is wearing a Bernie Sanders hat also a CoC violation? Is voting for a Republican also a CoC violation?
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by zarkov99 on Friday November 08, 2019 @07:42PM (#21488579)
On what planet? Would you say the same of a Yang (MATH) hat? I loath Trump as much as anyone but this is utterly insane. We are not talking about Nazi imagery here, we are talking about a hat that supports the president elect - who by the way might very well win a second term on the back of this sort of un-american censorship.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by djsumdog on Saturday November 09, 2019 @01:13AM (#21489947)
A hat that contains a slogan he reused from the Regan administration to boot.
[dead]
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by shpongled on Saturday November 09, 2019 @10:11AM (#21491944)
This is one of the more ridiculous comments I've seen on HN. What a world we live in that people are threatened by a hat.
Re:Open Letter to the Linux Foundation by LocalH on Friday November 08, 2019 @10:57PM (#21489479)
Repeat after me: "There is no right to be shielded from offense"