News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by tonyedgecombe on Thursday November 07, 2019 @10:53AM (#21474247)
Perhaps you could trail a long unwinding power cable behind you which disconnects when fully extended.
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by tshaddox on Thursday November 07, 2019 @05:32PM (#21478015)
Heck, it might be doable to just lay the power cable in a permanent route on the ground and use electricity to propel the craft along that route! You wouldn't even need wings!
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by alexis_fr on Thursday November 07, 2019 @12:56PM (#21475490)
Aircraft carrier catapults do that. When launching the aircraft, all the energy is expended from the ground. Looking forward to such gigantic machines on airports, how much they would charge per flight, and problems like terrain slowly moving due to the gigantic forces at play.
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by hodgesrm on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:42PM (#21475997)
Catapults accelerate aircraft to the point of generating enough lift for powered flight. They allow you to take off from a short runway like a carrier but don't get you to altitude. You can get a sense of how much power is being used to reach cruising altitude by listening to the engines on take-off. They don't fully throttle back until you reach a high enough altitude to permit level flight.
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by magduf on Friday November 08, 2019 @01:20PM (#21485090)
>Catapults accelerate aircraft to the point of generating enough lift for powered flight.

Yes, but the reason they're used is because it's infeasible or too expensive to build an aircraft carrier long enough to have jets reliably take off from them without this extra boost. Even so, those catapults are fairly short: notice they're only a fraction of the length of the carrier.

They're not used in regular airports because they're not absolutely necessary, the way they are on aircraft carriers. It's more expense, and planes can do without them. However, there's a cost to this: the planes need bigger engines and more fuel to take off reliably. And bigger engines are less efficient overall (as in cruising). So there would be a significant fuel savings if you could count on having catapults on the ground to help get the plane to takeoff speed: you could downsize the engines, and carry less fuel, saving a lot of money overall per flight (not to mention all the carbon pollution).

Finally, the extra g-forces shouldn't be a big deal. There's high g-forces in a carrier launch because the catapults are very short. And until recently, they were steam powered. This needn't be the case with commercial aviation: they can use modern electromagnetic launchers, and they can make the catapults very long (as long as much of the runway), to have lower peak acceleration. Basically, the planes and passengers would not need to experience higher g-forces than they already do; they'd just be getting them from the catapult instead of solely from the engines.

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by pge on Thursday November 07, 2019 @04:26PM (#21477464)
Good point - if you watch carrier launches, the planes actually fall a little as they go off the end of runway because they aren’t lifting yet. But presumably with a longer runway like you have at an airport, you could get to higher speed and truly liftoff.

But having also launched from a carrier myself, I wouldnt want that g force everytime I fly commercially.

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by WalterBright on Thursday November 07, 2019 @09:00PM (#21479412)
> the planes actually fall a little as they go off the end of runway

If I was a carrier pilot, I doubt I'd ever get used to that!

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by hodgesrm on Thursday November 07, 2019 @05:44PM (#21478080)
I would love to launch from a carrier. Was in the Air Force but not flight crew. Saw a lot of great aircraft there...from the ground. :)
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by smileysteve on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:25PM (#21475804)
> Looking forward to such gigantic machines on airports, how much they would charge per flight

It's actually an interesting supposition, because whether it's gasoline or electric, it should be cheaper and more reliable to run a ground operation than to pack fuel that is expelled before anything meaningful has happened.

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by chr1 on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:37PM (#21475939)
Or build a several kilometers high tower, using either Space fountain or floating spheres.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_fountain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Nine_(tensegrity_spher...

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by Alupis on Thursday November 07, 2019 @11:04AM (#21474375)
What happens when it mechanically fails and doesn't disconnect? Have a 2 mile long cable being drug behind a 200mph flying machine?

That seems quite dangerous - to both the aircraft and everyone onboard, as well as to anyone on the ground in the path of this cable.

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by tonyedgecombe on Thursday November 07, 2019 @11:08AM (#21474425)
What happens when the plane mechanically fails? Having 600 tons of metal raining down on a population sounds quite dangerous.
Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by Alupis on Thursday November 07, 2019 @11:20AM (#21474537)
> What happens when the plane mechanically fails? Having 600 tons of metal raining down on a population sounds quite dangerous

Simply put, that's just not how aviation works.

Mechanical failures aren't uncommon in aviation, but for an aircraft to not be able to divert and return to the ground, a lot has to go wrong all at once. It's infinitesimally rare for all systems to fail at once on an airliner. There simply isn't a problem of airliners dropping out of the sky, ever. They're incredibly robust machines.

However, with your idea, we'd be relying on a single system to prevent catastrophic failure. That's a massive step backwards for aviation.

That doesn't even begin covering the problems with delivering enough electricity over this cable to power an airliner at takeoff... That cable would need to be a very thick gauge of wire and very heavy - causing all sorts of it's own problems.

Re:Aviation Is on a Low-Carbon Flight Path by tonyedgecombe on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:43PM (#21476007)
You can have your doubts but I'm off to the patent office tomorrow.