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Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by jameslk on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:40PM (#21467714)
The effects may be low but what is the alternative? You suggest there's a digital advertising bubble but to have a bubble with the assumption it will burst, you need to show that advertisers can achieve a better return by doing something else.

There's no digital marketing bubble more than there is a traditional advertising bubble. There IS however a conflict of interest in advertising that's caused by the agency which performs the advertising being tasked with showing a return on investment.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by jessefrederik on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:55PM (#21467894)
I agree that advertising as a whole might be a bubble. In fact, my next piece is about TV advertising which is arguably worse. See: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3273476

I do think it's more accepted in traditional advertising that we just don't know how well it works. In digital advertising there is a grand illusion of measurement.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by nopriorarrests on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:11PM (#21468072)
Hey Jesse,

I spent 6 years working in ad-tech, and I was researching the incrementality effect of ads, selection bias and stuff like that for last 3 years. I want to let you know that your article is good. Online advertising is not a bubble, but your article perfectly explains why it is much harder than it seems.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by DataWorker on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:36PM (#21468792)
The thing about bubbles is that nobody knows they exist. So an insider such as yourself saying, “there is no bubble,” is actually strong evidence of said bubble. Necessary but not sufficient.
Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by nl on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:05AM (#21470837)
This isn't really the case. Bubbles usually have plenty of people claiming they are bubbles, and people on the inside privately acknowledging it.

In online advertising there are few people on the inside who think that non-brand advertising is a bubble. It just works too well, in too many places, and too many people are making money using it. It's reliable and effective, and those just aren't attributes associated with bubbles.

Yeah, attributing everything to the last-click isn't the best measurement in the world. But as pointed out elsewhere there are techniques to avoid it.

And there are enough direct-to-consumer brands which launch on Instagram and do nothing else to be able to see how effective it is.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by perl4ever on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @08:38PM (#21469620)
No, it's perfectly reasonable that everyone knows there is a bubble, but nobody knows when it will pop.

"Irrational exuberance" is a famous quote about the 90s stock market/internet bubble, and it was in 1996, when the party was just getting started.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by jessefrederik on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:16PM (#21468126)
Thanks a lot! :-)
Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by bjornjaja on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:22PM (#21468197)
Not sure this has much significance, but as a consumer I usually skip online ads or tune them out mentally as they are so pervasive it’s a nuisance. T.V ads work on me to an extent if I were watching live T.V. but I try again to avoid them like the plague.

Some news sites make ads agreeable if it meshes well with the content (like NY Times and such).

The bottom line I think is that there’s too much competition for my attention and it gets exhausting unless the ads are really well thought out (original ideas) or subtle—in which case the probability of me seeing the ad is less, but the effectiveness most likely increases as its less like an ad and more like relevant content

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by Spooky23 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:44PM (#21468406)
I disagree.

Most of the people I grew up with today know that it’s Miller time, that sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t, or that coke is the real thing. They learned that from TV.

Online ads? They don’t trigger anything for me. They either need to deliver information contextually, deliver preferred placement for something I’m already looking for, or be deceptive.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by JohnFen on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:24PM (#21468698)
> I grew up with today know that it’s Miller time, that sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t, or that coke is the real thing.

True. I acknowledge here that anecdote is not a synonym for data, but I will offer that despite those phrases having been seared into my brain for most of my life, I don't actually drink Miller, eat Almond Joy or Mounds, or drink Coke.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by asdff on Thursday November 07, 2019 @01:48AM (#21471020)
If you were the kind of person who drank light beer, candy, and soda, I bet that jingle would spark something.

Ad quality these days has gone down for sure. Everything is formulaic and established and safe, yet nearly every major ad over the course of advertisement history was major because it was the opposite of these. I guess quantity has gone up to compensate.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by JohnFen on Thursday November 07, 2019 @10:55AM (#21474265)
I'm not big on beer or soda, but I do have a candy habit!
Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by sosborn on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:12PM (#21468084)
Online ad metrics tell people “what” happened, but people expect it to tell them “why.”
Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by CharlesColeman on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:00PM (#21468528)
> but to have a bubble with the assumption it will burst, you need to show that advertisers can achieve a better return by doing something else.

To burst a bubble, you don't have to show them something that works better, you just have to convince them to stop drastically overpaying for what they've been buying.

Re:What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital... by buboard on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:05PM (#21467991)
the bubble is in the price premium of online ads