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Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bhaak on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:04AM (#21460350)
> Many own a war weapon at home (that is strictly forbidden to take out without orders)

That's not entirely true. You can take your own military weapon and use it in your free time on a shooting range or event.

You don't even need a special permission to do so.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by occamrazor on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:49AM (#21460755)
Indeed. There is very strict regulation around army-issued ammo however.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by noxer on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:11AM (#21460866)
That's only because amry-issued ammo is free. The ammo you buy for shooting at the range you have to pay and they must prevent that people use army ammo instead. You can buy amo and take it home anytime you want if you are at least 18 years old.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bayesian_horse on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:23AM (#21460425)
And those weapons somewhat regularly feature in suicides and "family tragedies".
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by noxer on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:04AM (#21460824)
In about 25% of all cases where firearms are involved they are military firearms (pistols or rifles). That does not include suicide unless connected with some sort of violent crime where a firearm was involved.

The "normal" suicides trough a firearm probably have a higher rate of military firearms because people probably choose the firearm with the higher success rate. Also because suicide is more likely to be committed by younger persons and younger male persons usually do own a military rifle. If one completely finished military service and you want to keep your rifle you can do that. It will be converted to a semi-automatic rifle. This then would not count as suicide my military firearm anymore. Depending on military function this can be anywhere between the age of 30 up to the age of 40.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by kenneth on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:43AM (#21460720)
No they don't. We Swiss are a little more responsible with our guns than Americans.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bhaak on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:12AM (#21460868)
They certainly did:

> In 83.1% (n = 1112) of the 1338 suicides by firearm between 2000 and 2010 in Switzerland, the firearm could be categorised as an army weapon or a non-army weapon. The army weapon was used in 39.1% of these suicides.

https://smw.ch/article/doi/smw.2018.14646

But that is not surprising. Suicides often happen out of an impulse and then people use the best available and easiest accessible means to kill themselves. And an army weapon fulfills those conditions much better than anything else people have at home.

I don't know if there are already newer studies that take into account that the ammunition isn't storaged at home anymore.

I also couldn't find any numbers on "family tragedies".

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by pas on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:22AM (#21461210)
Can they simply buy ammo for it somewhere else?
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bhaak on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:01AM (#21461390)
Yes, you can easily buy ammo. But again, most suicides are not really planned. The studies about suicides are quite consistent that only about 10–15% of attempters eventually die by suicide.

That means if you don't have an effective way of ending your life at hand, it's likely that you will not try again successfully.

If you need ammunition, you are not likely to go out and get it. That's inconvenient and even if you go out and want to get it, that takes time in which you might reconsider.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by pdpi on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @07:57AM (#21462017)
It's worth noting that this is a trend, not a black and white rule. Some people _do_ plan it ahead of time, in some form or another.

E.g. my uncle specifically bought rope and carabiners prior to his suicide, and, apparently, had googled instructions on how to tie a noose several days ahead of the actual thing.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by pas on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @12:32PM (#21464784)
I imagine it comes in waves. And even if one wave just pushes someone to the point that buys ammo, the next has to push it only to load the gun, and the final one just has to push it to pull the trigger a little harder. :/

Though I have no data about this.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by kuerbel on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:56AM (#21460784)
They certainly did until it was forbidden to take ammunition home. In 2000 suicide by guns was 27% and in 2016 it was 20% of all suicides in Switzerland. Compared to other countries with more restrictive policies that is a lot more...
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by brohee on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:25AM (#21460926)
That says nothing about the use of the service rifle. Firearm ownership is much higher in Switzerland than the rest of Europe.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by squiggleblaz on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:20AM (#21461476)
Surely there's a relationship between giving all your citizens a gun and higher firearm ownership. If the policy is deadly, does it matter whether the death happens with a service rifle or a weapon they bought because of their happy memories?

I mean, it's not exactly as if the Swiss militia let them operate an independent foreign policy last time they felt threatened with invasion.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bayesian_horse on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:21AM (#21460911)
Still "somewhat regularly".

The simple truth is that an accessible gun has a higher chance of being abused or involved in an accident than one that is locked in an arsenal or doesn't exist in the first place.

Even in law enforcement, even though they often need guns, no matter what country, guns are abused regularly.

Which reminds me of the video of an FBI officer that accidentally discharged his weapon while break dancing.

Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by steve1977 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:48AM (#21460523)
Very rarely actually.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by bayesian_horse on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:39AM (#21460708)
It's relatively easy to find such incidences online. It's also easy to forget that Switzerland is quite a small country and underestimate the relative frequency.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by kome on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:15AM (#21460610)
well, not so easy. it used to be the case. but now you can't keep ammunition for no reason.
Re:Self Sabotage: The Swiss History of Rigging Vital Infrast... by Hitton on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:55AM (#21461090)
You can't keep army issued ammunition. You can still buy your own ammo.