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Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by jseliger on Friday November 01, 2019 @09:58PM (#21425410)
The strangest thing is the camera industry's non-response to smartphones. There's a fellow named Tom Hogan who writes in extreme detail about the camera industry and noticed years ago that camera makers should open up their APIs and work much harder to integrate with smartphones. Here's one recent example of that message: http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/are-customers-asking-for.htm...

Still, Apple discovered a user problem—stringing together multiple apps to create a one-step process—and is trying to solve it. Are the camera companies doing the same? Doesn't seem like it.

So for now I can only dream about the camera that lets me load some variables into the EXIF data of an image (hashtags, caption, destination, resize choice, priority) while shooting, pushes that over to my phone via something like SnapBridge, and then because that phone app supports Shortcuts, allows me to say "Hey Siri, Output Images with Priority 1." Plus, when I get home be able to say to my computer "Hey Siri, Archive all Images."

Camera makers have done some half-assed wifi, Bluetooth, and NFC integrations with smartphones, but for the most part the camera still lives on its own, still uses out-of-date SoCs, and generally behaves like the year is 2005, not 2019. The various cameras I've used aren't even smart enough to do simple things like transfer a selected image to a given social network whenever the camera gets within range of a wifi access point it knows. And almost none of the camera makers seem to be serious about working on this problem. It's like Sony missing the iPod (a useful analogy because Sony is in the camera industry and, apart from its imaging sensor division, has missed the wave yet again).

Edit I forgot to add that I believe Sony just introduced a new $1400 flagship camera, the a6600. https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6975583891/sony-a6000-a610.... It has a 4-5 year old sensor in it and software that is even older. Kitted out from scratch with high quality lenses, it's probably $2,500 – $3,000. Imagine how many iPhones Apple would sell if the sensor were not much changed from the 6s and the camera software not changed at all.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by aeturnum on Saturday November 02, 2019 @12:40AM (#21425924)
>Camera makers have done some half-assed wifi, Bluetooth, and NFC integrations with smartphones, but for the most part the camera still lives on its own, still uses out-of-date SoCs, and generally behaves like the year is 2005

I've noticed this too and I have a pet theory about why.

It all comes back to the Canon 5DMk2. The Mk2 was an industry first: integrating video into a full frame sensor in an affordable body. It was an enormous hit. An entire generation of filmmakers grew up using the Mk2 and doing shots that were basically impossible on movie making equipment in the same price range. It made entire movies possible.

The problem is this: Canon also makes extremely high margin movie cameras and lenses. This equipment costs a lot more (and is probably what you want for a full production but I digress) and Canon makes a lot more on it. My impression is that the Mk2 killed an entire segment of Canon's product line and scared the shit out of them.

Since then, Canon has been extremely careful to roll out video features on prosumer cameras (like the Mk2) cameras slowly. They will only support lower quality video codecs on these cameras. They have made a new line of cheap-er video-first cameras.

I think that when the camera makers cannibalized their own products, a common move in smart devices, they got incredibly scared and ran away. The only one really making moves in this area is Sony and that's because Sony has nothing to lose - they had no business when they started making their name by releasing cameras with a lot of tech. Even so, they are not very good.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by CarVac on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:08PM (#21425641)
The A6600 sensor first appeared on the A6300, actually, not the A6000, so it's "only" three years old. That said, they've bumped into the upper limits of image quality; the newer 26MP sensor (which you'll find in the latest Fuji cameras) actually performs worse in low light than the preceding 24mp sensors.

>Imagine how many iPhones Apple would sell if the sensor were not much changed from the 6s and the camera software not changed at all.

Honestly, very little of the advances in cell phone cameras since the 6s have come from sensors; it's all computational. We're up against the brick wall that is photon noise.

Finally, the A6600 is very much not a flagship. The A9 II is the flagship, at three times the price ($4500).

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by asdfasgasdgasdg on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:15PM (#21425662)
And, despite the a6600 not being a flagship, if the light is anything less than perfect, it will take pictures that are plainly higher in quality than anything coming out of a phone.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by kungito on Saturday November 02, 2019 @06:20AM (#21426851)
People keep forgetting about sensor sizes and pretend like their tiny smartphone flagship can compensate with some smart extrapolation and fake bokeh
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by flyinglizard on Saturday November 02, 2019 @09:47AM (#21427679)
Also, diffraction limits of smaller optics. All of that can be fixed to some extent computationally, but not in all situations (like moving subjects).
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by blub on Saturday November 02, 2019 @09:00AM (#21427415)
When all one has is a smartphone, everything starts looking like something that can be integrated with said smartphone.

And as is typical one ends up with a half-assed solution that will stop working in 2 years when Apple/Google change some API or the app isn't maintained any more.

No matter how awesome it seems at launch and how good the quality, anything relying on smartphones is basically disposable.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by dannyw on Saturday November 02, 2019 @12:13PM (#21428439)
That's what happens when non-tech companies make products with fixed firmware, and don't back it with a commitment to upgrade and maintain it - almost SaaS like.

It's hard to go back to a regular (non-upgrading) car after driving a Tesla, for example. If some camera maker realises that software is just as important as hardware, and continuously upgrades one model for 5 years, including tight integration with apps, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by nradov on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:09PM (#21425644)
The camera industry's failure to react effectively isn't strange at all when you look at the history of disruptive innovations. In fact it's the typical pattern. Incumbent market leaders usually lack the corporate culture to recognize a disruptive competitor or react effectively.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by greggman2 on Saturday November 02, 2019 @07:05AM (#21426993)
I'm not sure what camera companies could have done short of to stop being a camera company and being a phone company which seems unrealistic. They only have experience with cameras, not with the amount of software dev needed to ship a competitive smartphone.

What did livery owners do when the car came? They closed shop is my guess.

I don't really think there is much the camera companies could do. They've tried making it so you can use your camera from your phone. It's too cumbersome. They've tried making it so you can post images directly from the camera to the various services. Again too cumbersome. I have my phone always. I rarely have my camera. They've added apps stores to their cameras. They've added APIs. No one cares, it's not enough. Except for a few pros they're just not something anyone needs anymore.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by coredog64 on Saturday November 02, 2019 @08:07AM (#21427178)
There’s the half step of partnership with top tier phone makers. Apple wouldn’t, but maybe a hungrier Android OEM would do a deal with Canon, give them a physical space “budget” in a flagship phone, and then market the hell out of it.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by reaperducer on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:51PM (#21425590)
Not to mention how every phone camera geotags every image automatically, but that's still a bulky $500 add-on for DSLRs, if it's even available for your model.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by kenhwang on Saturday November 02, 2019 @12:47AM (#21425945)
My 5 year old DSLR has GPS tagging for every photo. I mostly keep it off because it kills the battery. I suspect most serious photographers don't care about geotagging.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by reaperducer on Saturday November 02, 2019 @12:22PM (#21428488)
I suspect most serious photographers don't care about geotagging.

If by "serious" you mean "studio," then you're probably right.

But there are plenty of "serious" photographers that find geotagging very useful. Newspaper photographers, travel photographers, scientific photography, etc...

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by ghaff on Saturday November 02, 2019 @03:26AM (#21426347)
I guess it depends what you mean by serious. I often find it very useful to know where a picture was taken. Direction would be nice too.

Battery life is a general problem for GPS but if I can have GPS on a watch I’m not sure it would drain a big DSLR camera battery all that much.

Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by mantoto on Saturday November 02, 2019 @08:24AM (#21427249)
We had 0 powerissues with our dslr's because they don't do GPS. Could not care less about it to be honest.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by dekhn on Saturday November 02, 2019 @10:13AM (#21427804)
Hmm, I paid $50 for one (Canon DSLR, which is one of the most common). It fits in the hot shoe and is 70mmx50mmx30mm. I don't consider that extremely bulky (I'm sure there are smaller ones that cost a bit more).
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by nradov on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:13PM (#21425658)
Ideally cameras should pick up location from the shooter's smartphone through a Bluetooth link.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by floatboth on Saturday November 02, 2019 @08:00AM (#21427146)
Photo management tools like digiKam can pick up locations from GPX tracks (e.g. recorded with OsmAnd on your phone) and sync with the photos by time.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by bmarquez on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:35PM (#21425729)
The Sony a6400 does this if the Sony app is running on the smartphone, but it drains the camera's battery fairly quickly.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by mschuster91 on Saturday November 02, 2019 @06:46AM (#21426940)
For what its worth the Sony hot-shoe actually has dedicated GPS pins but there is no GPS mouse available (and Sony won't react if you ask for specs). The only thing that is available are external GPS recorders which you have to read out and semi-automatically merge with your photo library. What an absolute clusterfuck.
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by fock on Saturday November 02, 2019 @08:20AM (#21427231)
did you ever go on a hike without mobile coverage and then check the tags vs. actual location (noted from an actual map, because Google Maps won't work)
Re:The Smartphone vs. the Camera Industry by eigen on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:57PM (#21425810)
>Edit I forgot to add that I believe Sony just introduced a new $1400 flagship camera, the a6600. https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6975583891/sony-a6000-a610.... It has a 4-5 year old sensor in it and software that is even older.

how often does Sony release new APS-C sensors?