Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by elliekelly on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:24AM
(#21419173)
> I have never seen any evidence that women were discriminated against in 1930s mathematics other than specific stories about women being treated coldly by the establishment.
So you've seen no evidence of discrimination... other than specific stories of discrimination? What do you think discrimination in academia looks like? A giant sign on the front door of the university that says "NO GIRLS ALLOWED"?
Geiringer was the first woman professor of Mathematics in Germany but she probably wasn't the first woman in Germany who was qualified to hold that position.
Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by whatshisface on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:35AM
(#21419280)
There is no number of specific stories that should convince anyone, unless there is also some indication that they are being evenly sampled! You would have to compare all of the stories of men who were denied appointments to make a conclusion. To get a probability from a count, you have to divide by something.
Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by Voloskaya on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:30AM
(#21419837)
I mean, isn't the fact that there were virtually no women in academia back in the time a convincing enough proof in itself that there was, indeed, discrimination?
Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by whatshisface on Friday November 01, 2019 @11:52AM
(#21420104)
Discrimination on the part of gatekeepers isn't the only thing that can keep minorities out. A culture that tells them not to try doing it because it isn't their assigned role, a fear of being the only one of their group among a majority of another group, and earlier discrimination that prevents them from getting qualifications but isn't the fault of the gatekeeper could all be responsible. Given the information I know and what has been brought up in this discussion, University mathematicians could have been perfectly willing to hire women.
Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by Voloskaya on Friday November 01, 2019 @12:20PM
(#21420502)
This is just the good old pipeline fallacy all over again.
The fact you like to call it fallacy doesn't make it one.
Re:Hilda Geiringer Reshaped Mathematics
by whiddershins on Friday November 01, 2019 @10:38AM
(#21419306)
How do you know that last part? What was the state of education in Germany at that time? What was considered the qualifications for professorship at that time? How many people of any gender had those qualifications? Do you have any specific knowledge about any of this?
Look at it this way. If I told you every time a coin came up heads, how many reports would it take for you to conclude that it was biased? The right answer is "the conclusion may never be reached," because I'm not allowing you to tally up the number of times it came up tails. Likewise, despite the huge number of stories about women being denied appointments despite having made significant contributions, no conclusion can be drawn until there is some indication that the effect is unique to women.
Another important point is that even if the 1930s were awful and sexist, there may have been islands of relatively fair people. So in the interest of remembing them as they deserve, it is best to check each social group individually for evidence of their bad behavior, so that you don't end up remembering the one admissions committee that wasn't sexist as just another bias enforcement team.