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Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:36PM (#21404188)
The real and less romantic story is this: The journalists at Deadspin and its sister sites, like most journalists I know, are eager to do work that makes money; we are even willing to compromise for it, knowing that our jobs and futures rest on it. An ever-growing number of media owners, meanwhile, are so exceedingly unwilling to reckon with the particulars of their own business that they refuse to accept our eagerness to help them make money.

(...)

A metastasizing swath of media is controlled by private-equity vultures and capricious billionaires and other people who genuinely believe that they are rich because they are smart and that they are smart because they are rich, and that anyone less rich is by definition less smart. They know what they know, and they don’t need to know anything else.

Why don't the journalists who know how to run the business pool their resources up and start a business then? What's stopping them? What do they need those venture capital vultures for?

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by chrisseaton on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:30PM (#21404548)
> Why don't the journalists who know how to run the business pool their resources up and start a business then? What's stopping them? What do they need those venture capital vultures for?

Maybe they've got families to feed? Not everyone can just quit and start a business that indefinitely burns cash.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by koboll on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:39PM (#21404602)
Especially people living on a writer's salary in New York City in 2019
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:43PM (#21404617)
You don't have to live in New York City to run a content website. In fact, you can live wherever you want and work from home.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by chrisseaton on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:47PM (#21404639)
Buddy, there's nowhere that you can live where the shoes your children need will be free.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manigandham on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @10:55PM (#21405318)
What does that have to do with anything? There are millions of people raising families and working with a lower cost of living to do so.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by chrisseaton on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @10:59PM (#21405342)
What it has to do with the topic is that you need money to support a family. Moving to a lower cost of living area does not mean you can support them on nothing, so does not solve the problem we were talking about.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manigandham on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:57PM (#21405615)
The topic was whether journalists know how to run their business given all their critique.

Seems like it’s either easy and so they should get on with it (and it’s undeniably cheap to get started) or it’s much harder than it looks and they don’t really know what they’re talking about.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by chrisseaton on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:08AM (#21405679)
The original question was this

> Why don't the journalists who know how to run the business pool their resources up and start a business then? What's stopping them? What do they need those venture capital vultures for?

The answer is super simple - because they would starve to death before they managed to start making a profit. Most people don’t have that much savings for a runway.

Someone said ‘move to a lower cost of living area’ but there is no zero cost of living area to move to until you become profitable.

That’s why they need VC.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manigandham on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:19AM (#21405718)
This is the same situation that the vast majority of entrepreneurs are in and they make it work. What is so special about journalists that they always need special rules or consideration?
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by chrisseaton on Thursday October 31, 2019 @08:27AM (#21407953)
> What is so special about journalists

They’re paid a pittance. They can’t build up any savings.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by vuln on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @09:23PM (#21404815)
> like most journalists I know, are eager to do work that makes money; we are even willing to compromise for it.

Is this journalism in 2019? Pump out content to make a buck and fuck journalistic integrity because they have kids to feed? Real journalism takes too long and doesn't generate enough revenue?

One could say the same about Russian troll farms, they too have kids at home to feed.

What a sad world we live in.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manicdee on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @09:48PM (#21404931)
I think you are completely misreading this, given that the context is people quitting their jobs over perceived threats to journalistic integrity.

There are other compromises that can be made such as pay, working conditions, working on dross stories to make up for the expense of the really good ones, etc.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by mc32 on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @10:37PM (#21405220)
I looks like the new bosses were pushing sports on the journalists. I don’t see how that implies losing integrity. Not caring about integrity would be things like fabrication, omission, taking one side of the issue, etc. Focusing on one section of news doesn’t compromise integrity.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manicdee on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:18PM (#21405438)
You’ve missed the subtext.

“Stick to sports” doesn’t mean “report only about sports.” It means, “do not follow that story any further because it makes me uncomfortable.” This could be for various reasons but ultimately means sticking to one side of an issue, omitting details that would anger the Powers That Be, or even fabricating details to put a positive spin on an otherwise damning report.

“Stick to sports” means, “screw journalistic integrity”

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by thrower123 on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:38PM (#21405533)
That's emphatically not what "stick to sports" means.

For a lot of people, sports are an oasis of tranquility carved out of the incessant rage and cultural bickering that blares 24/7 everywhere else. There's a lot of old duffers that would rather hear about David Price's fastball rather than his political positions, or Kyrie Irving's crossover dribble rather than his speculations on the geometry of the Earth.

It's still a weird pivot for Deadspin to take, because that was never what they were about or where their audience was. My suspicion is that it was a reaction to the ratings baths that ESPN has taken as they embraced the culture war, rather than Top 10, box scores and replays - and alienated a big chunk of their audience. In both cases it's a warning about knowing your brand and your audience...

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by danso on Thursday October 31, 2019 @09:51AM (#21408705)
Deadspin’s non-sports coverage had more page views than its sports posts by a 2-to-1 ratio: https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-adults-in-the-room-183...
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by slg on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:30AM (#21405772)
>It's still a weird pivot for Deadspin to take, because that was never what they were about or where their audience was.

I have been a Deadspin reader since at least 2006. It might have gotten more political over recent years (hasn't everything?), but I think you fundamentally didn't understand Deadspin's purpose if you think it was the place to go to read about David Price's fastball. There are countless places on the internet that cover stories like that better. The thing the separated Deadspin from the crowd was that they didn't stick to what happened on the field in sports and that was a key factor in them building their audience.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by shaki-dora on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @10:18PM (#21405087)
Is this reading comprehension in 2019?

The clear intent of the sentence is to state that journalists do understand the need for their publisher to function as a business, i. e. to rebut the other stereotype of journalists that they often get to hear, namely that they are unrealistic idealists.

Sad world, indeed.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by mcphage on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:07AM (#21405665)
The quality of reading comprehension on this site is depressingly low.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by CPLX on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:54PM (#21404319)
I mean they did. The actual business we are talking about was started the way you suggest, and was then destroyed by a vindictive billionaire, and is now being (apparently) mismanaged by a bunch of other rich people.

Is your premise that the journalists have no right to be mad at what they perceive as an unjust wielding of economic power?

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:05PM (#21404398)
The actual business we are talking about was started the way you suggest, and was then destroyed by a vindictive billionaire, and is now being (apparently) mismanaged by a bunch of other rich people.

If so, that's only more reason to leave. If they all leave, they can start a competing business managing it the way they want, while the rich people are left with worthless husk.

I'd also like to note that it was not destroyed by "vindictive billionaire", but by a result of jury trial, which punished them for keeping a private sex tape up despite the court order telling them to take it down. Allow me to opine that it doesn't really give me a feeling that they know how to run a successful business.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by manigandham on Thursday October 31, 2019 @05:50PM (#21414079)
Gawker was trying to destroy someone by publishing tabloid news and then overpowering them in court, until someone richer than them showed up (because they did the same to him before).

It was their own strategy used against them in a legal battle, over tabloid news instead of some hard-hitting report. They aren't a victim in any sense.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by donw on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @09:51PM (#21404950)
They were destroyed for publishing revenge porn[1].

Whoever at that organization gave the greenlight on publishing and publicizing sexually explicit videos without the express consent of the people appearing in them are lucky to not be in prison.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_porn

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by slg on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:38PM (#21404203)
Journalists aren't exactly known for being paid well. They need resources to start up an outlet and the primary place to get those resources in venture capital which would just start this entire process over again.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by xyzzyz on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:47PM (#21404271)
A content-based website is extremely cheap business to start, as far as running businesses goes. Seriously, you don't need any capital whatsoever, no offices, machines, just pay someone to set up a website. Millions of people start all kinds of businesses in this country every year, often much poorer than journalists.

The reason they don't do this is because running a content-based business is much harder than they claim it to be, and it's easy to claim things when you don't have skin in the game: when the venture-capital owned company goes under, they'll just get another job, while if they start their own business, pool up some initial capital and work for free for a few months until they make enough revenue to pay themselves reasonable salaries, they're risking much more.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by slg on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:59PM (#21404356)
>pool up some initial capital and work for free for a few months until they make enough revenue to pay themselves reasonable salaries

And there is the problem I was referencing. It is a pretty big ask for everyone to just work for free for months and it is something only a privileged few can do. Plus a site like Deadspin isn't a small site. I'm not sure of the exact headcount, but it looks like roughly 10 writers have left recently. That isn't counting any tech people, any sales folks, or any other operational people. The idea that "content is cheap" is basically the exact problem that caused this whole debacle in the first place.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by kaitai on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:59PM (#21404688)
"don't have skin in the game" -- can you explain what you mean by saying that journalists don't have skin in the game of journalism?

Your first paragraph says that content-based websites are easy even for poor people; your second says it's hard and that you have to work for free for months. I'm confused. How are poor people supposed to work for free for a few months and then have enough to pay themselves reasonable salaries with health care/insurance and retirement and PTO?

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by mc32 on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:42PM (#21404240)
It depends on your ambition (goal).

Many community newspapers start with low resources and grow over time to become the voice of their community. They’re not going to become rich in most cases.

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by samfbiddle on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:40PM (#21404222)
What resources?
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by Khaine on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @10:55PM (#21405319)
As I understand it the owners told them to focus on sports not politics, and these "journalists" refused. It sounds to me that a site dedicated to sports, should focus on sports.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by mcphage on Thursday October 31, 2019 @12:09AM (#21405681)
> It sounds to me that a site dedicated to sports, should focus on sports.

What does it sound to you that a site not purely dedicated to sports—like say, I dunno, Deadspin—should do?

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by Khaine on Thursday October 31, 2019 @04:50AM (#21406816)
From https://nypost.com/2019/10/30/deadspin-writers-revolt-say-th...

  Things are spinning out of control over at Deadspin.
  Several staffers at the news site announced their resignations on Wednesday — amid a struggle with their G/O Media bosses who recently   issued a memo telling writers to file only sports stories.
  
  The internal revolt began Tuesday with rebellious staffers continuing to write non-sports stories — and the deputy director saying he’d been fired for not following the directive.
  “Hi! I’ve just been fired from Deadspin for not sticking to sports,” tweeted Barry Petchesky.
  
  On Wednesday, sports writer Lauren Theisen posted an image she said was of “the meeting where management tried to get us to move past   Barry’s firing.” She then announced that she was leaving the site over how her colleagues were treated.
  Features writer Kelsey McKinney and media reporter Laura Wagner were also among the many staffers to announce they quit Wednesday.
  
  A G/O spokesperson said in a statement: “They resigned and we’re sorry that they couldn’t work within this incredibly broad coverage mandate. We’re excited about Deadspin’s future and we’ll have some important updates in the coming days.”

I don't understand why sports writers would be mad about being told to stick to sports. If I go to a sports website, I want to see sports articles. That's the job. Instead, you got progressives writing political articles tangentially related to sports if at all. If they want to write political articles, don't write for a sports site.

Compare and contrast:

https://twitter.com/gmgunion/status/1189287651146383361

I think that says it all really

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by Khaine on Thursday October 31, 2019 @03:03AM (#21406336)
From Wikipedia:

"Deadspin is a sports news and blog website, originally founded by Gawker Media. Deadspin posts commentaries, recaps and previews of major sports stories of the day, as well as sports-related anecdotes, rumors and video"

I'm not a reader of deadspin, but if their content no longer aligned to this, and was primarily focussed on politics. Its little wonder the owners said knock it off.

Coincidentally, ESPN, has done the same thing, putting the focus back on sports[1]

[1] https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/07/espn-dan-le-batard-no-polit...

Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by InvisibleCities on Thursday October 31, 2019 @11:37AM (#21409922)
I am (was) an avid reader of Deadspin, and the non-sports content was a large part of why I read that site for 10+ odd years. The reality is that, even for people who love sports, there often isn't very much to say about them. Rather than force them to churn out the same kind of article about why LeBron James is good at basketball that you could read on any number of websites, Deadspin allowed their writers the freedom to write about whatever they wanted to, whether that was a brilliant analysis of Loony Tunes (https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/how-wile-e-coyote-explains...), poignant commentary about the ways in which journalistic language undermines sexual assault victims (https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/against-allegedly-18197033...), or tell a harrowing story about recovering from a major brain hemorrhage (https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/the-night-the-lights-went-...). The perspective offered by Deadspin was unique, and I will miss it dearly.
Re:Deadspin Staffers Are Quitting by mcphage on Thursday October 31, 2019 @08:39AM (#21408048)
> I'm not a reader of deadspin, but if their content no longer aligned to this, and was primarily focussed on politics.

See, if you had been a reader for a while, you would have known that they frequently covered non-sports topics, and that's a big part of what their readers liked.