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Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by Miner49er on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:17PM (#21402095)
A post from the other day:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21380985

A user who works in digital advertising said they do the following:

> You don't take money from clients who are representing/selling anything other than goods or services. You evaluate creative & landing pages for each and every campaign. It's extremely simple.

Seems like a mostly good solution. I guess you could still sell political services and goods though? Not sure how you would draw the line at that point, all goods and services can be argued to be political.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by roywiggins on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:23PM (#21402183)
Not to mention explicitly political merchandise, #resistance shirts, Don't Tread On Me flags, bumper stickers, QAnon coffee mugs...
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by AmericanChopper on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:37PM (#21402390)
The quote you posted just seems intentionally dismissive. The truth is that whether any content is political or not depends much more on the views of the audience than it does the content itself. Outside of ads that political campaigns would want to run directly, this means that twitter will be arbitrarily deciding what content is political (and therefor not allowed), and what content is non-political (and therefor allowed). The only possible outcome is that twitter moderates the content based upon whatever political perspective they choose to adopt for this.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by slg on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:21PM (#21402159)
So does that mean some group like the American Cancer Society can't advertise?
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by jMyles on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:32PM (#21402332)
American Cancer Society is a good example of an organization that is clearly, unambiguously political, but which most people probably don't want banned.

Ultimately, every position you can possibly advocate - including the position that you want people to purchase something or donate to someone - has packaged with it some vision of how society might best operate. In other words: in a society where decisions are made in a political way (which is a good thing), every message is political. Every message.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by tyre on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:25PM (#21402215)
Sounds like the American Cancer Society can advocate for itself but not for candidates or policies.

Fine:

Donate to fight cancer

Not fine:

Donate to Candidate X to support cancer research

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by bhupy on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:31PM (#21402304)
How about ACLU or Planned Parenthood?
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by tyre on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:47PM (#21402505)
same apply. ACLU can ask for donations or talk about their services, like representing people who can't afford representation.

PP can as well. They can't say "vote pro-choice" but can advertise that they provide women's health services including abortions.

Basically: you can talk about what you do that isn't related to elections or votes in congress.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by bhupy on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:55PM (#21402593)
Can the NRA ask for donations?
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by inerte on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @05:03PM (#21402703)
My guess is that it depends how it is phrased, the imagery and the landing page. "Donate now", ok. "Donate now to keep NRA working for you", ok. "Donate now so we can fight policy XYZ", probably not.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by chance_state on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @05:58PM (#21403271)
This is really interesting, because it seems that in some cases (ex. NRA or EFF) it doesn't actually matter what the ad copy is. It's very clear why they're soliciting donations (to lobby for their ideological viewpoint).

So in your example, I think it's absolutely clear to most adult Americans what "Donate now" means. It means "Donate now so that we can fight for your gun rights" or "Donate now so that we can fight for a free and open internet".

I do worry that Twitter is just ratcheting up the difficulty they're already facing with political speech on the platform.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by wavefunction on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:43PM (#21402458)
Those are a civil rights group and a health care provider. If your politics are opposed to civil rights or health care then you may consider them "political" but they aren't. Not by any reasonable definition.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by bhupy on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @07:08PM (#21403980)
I'm pro-choice, and support/donate to Planned Parenthood, but you have to be willfully obtuse to not accept that abortion is a political issue — 40% of the country thinks that it should be illegal.

I also donate to ACLU, but you have to be willfully obtuse to not accept that it predominately backs left-leaning policy viewpoints, and vocally so — again, fundamentally political in nature.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by drak0n1c on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @08:03PM (#21404381)
If an organization lobbies to receive taxpayer funding, or lobbies to change laws and legal rulings, they are political. Whatever else they happen to offer doesn't cover that up.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by vonmoltke on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @05:00PM (#21402666)
Both organizations have PACs. Their PACs should be covered by any ban on political advertising.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by greenshackle2 on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:32PM (#21402331)
What good or service is "Donate to fight cancer" advertising?
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by mrtksn on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @05:43PM (#21403117)
Sounds like a Kickstarter for a cancer cure, it's a legit service.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by Miner49er on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:28PM (#21402261)
I would think that yes, it means they couldn't advertise.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by mdorazio on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:20PM (#21402148)
That's a good system, but I'm not sure it's actually workable at the scale of Twitter or Facebook's ad platforms. That's a a lot of human review.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by tyre on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:22PM (#21402173)
Of course it is workable. You approve ads as they come in. If the marginal value of the ads isn't high enough to justify human review, you kill those ads. It might be expensive, but it's not impossible.

Using "scale" as an out doesn't fly. Sometimes you have to cut back on growth and/or scale to do the right thing. No human review clearly hasn't worked, so either automate or get humans in there. More likely, start with the latter and replace with the former over time.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by xenomachina on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @05:27PM (#21402966)
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think one thing a lot of people don't realize is just how incredibly long the "long tail" is in self-service ads. I would not be surprised if more than 99% of potential ad impressions fall below the cost-effective-to-manually-review threshold. So requiring manual review on all ads is going to mean a lot more sacrifice than cutting back a little. It could mean a lot of these companies would be profitable at all. It's also unfortunate for the vast majority of advertisers in the long tail that are perfectly acceptable.

Automating can help with the more obvious stuff, but there are many ways it can fail in either direction. For example, failing to detect hate-speech dog whistles, or inadvertently suppressing ads from minorities where the language patterns fall outside of what it sees as "the norm".

Anyway, like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you. These systems definitely need considerable improvement, but doing that isn't as trivial as it may at first seem.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by JaRail on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @09:08PM (#21404738)
Automation + human classifiers + user reporting. The stuff automation gets wrong or isn't confident about goes into the training set and the system improves.

Even if they lose money by manually reviewing a small ad that was flagged as possibly political, it doesn't mean it costs more to review 1/100 low-volume ads. They're also paying to classify useful data to train their model.

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by nickfromseattle on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:42PM (#21402454)
A lot of social networks will crawl pages for content.

For example, Facebook crawls links sent in messenger. [0]

No source, but I believe the major advertising platforms, e.g. Google Ads are doing this today to check for banned content.

Facebook could build a heuristic of banned pages & not allow ads to be published. Humans could manually verify things at the edges.

There is a whole industry called link cloaking, that shows the crawlers a sanitized page, and the human targets the actual landing page.

It's a cat & mouse game between ad publishers & blackhats, often times foreign nationals outside of US jurisdiction.

I'm trying to think through the scenarios where a political campaign might use blackhat techniques to subvert verification crawls, and it's not clear that it would stop all cases, but I believe it would stop most.

Political campaigns could use the Facebook accounts & payment information of foreign nationals to temporarily push ads until they were reported - would the liability of blowback be enough to prevent it?

[0] https://twitter.com/vah_13/status/1187755829371555840

Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by Traster on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:35PM (#21402371)
Well, twitter makes let's say $1Bn per year, so they could spend 15000 man years per year and still be breaking even.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by lonelappde on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:39PM (#21402411)
You have not justified that 15000 people is enough to moderate all the content.
Re:Twitter to ban political advertising by mbesto on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @04:34PM (#21402344)
It's almost as if those companies shouldn't be operating at the margins that they currently do...